Mythic +: Please re-assess utility

Can we please get utility re-assessed for Mythic + Dungeons. I play WW and Rogue. My WW is Ilvl 402 equipped. My Rogue is Ilvl 385 equipped. They are roughly the same Raider. io score.

And yet… It is so, SO, much easier to get into a dungeon on my Rogue. Not only is shroud invaluable for every single run, but then you go ahead and put things like locked tunnels in TD and small skips (dog) in Freehold that just makes them a necessary addition to the team.

Please look at utility. Just a brief scan over the LFG Mythic + page makes it so obvious that Rogues and Bres classes are sought out over any others.

I’m don’t know if you just need to create “Shroud” potions or “Bres” potions (like the heroism ones) that can help even it out, but it’s really frustrating playing a class that doesn’t bring something every comp pretty much requires.

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There are already Bres consumables in game, crafted by engineers.

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Doesn’t that require melee range, and a cast time, and have a fair chance to res the person at like 1% health?

So much worse than a brez. Why not just bring a Boomie or a Lock?

Because then you can’t bring a mage or shaman.

The rest of the community calls that an invis pot.

Added note, utility is over valued. Not that it isn’t useful, but other than countering specific affixes (like sang) I don’t see very much value in any specific class. There is a consumable for almost anything other than displacement.

I completely agree with you. I always have invis potions on me. But that doesn’t change the fact every single group for nearly every dungeon specifically gets a rogue for shroud.

Community perception is as important to whether something is actually mechanically balanced or not.

Completely disagree. I let the not bright do them… Away from me. The majority of the community is monkey see, monkey do and don’t even understand what’s going on. I’ve used exactly 3x this whole expansion. Anyone mentioning cc is answered with a charge. I just haven’t found a single circumstance, up to 13, where cc was necessary outside shackling a rot zombie or berserker.

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For all the talk about utility, the #1 M+ spec is the #1 M+ spec primarily because of its ability to do ridiculous AOE dps pressing a single button.

Rogue shroud is nice to have but not necessary for most dungeons. DPS is always necessary.

There is one run in the top forty times runs that doesn’t have a rogue. Many of the runs have two rogues.

Shroud is incredibly powerful and would likely have a place in groups even if rogues were weaker.

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CC is pretty useful for delaying reaping until after the last boss or next pack etc. E.G. In waycrest you can just CC the last gloom horror while you kill Gorak Tul then kill him afterwards to skip the last reaping wave.

There are also routes that leave you at 99.7% without using cc.

This. Anyone saying community perception doesn’t matter I just don’t think lives in the real world. Community perception is everything in lfg. And yes, I have friends that I group with who realize that WW does stellar damage. That doesn’t change the fact sometimes they aren’t on.

Anyway, just trying to give perspective from someone who does mythic + on the most represented melee DPS and least represented DPS, and I just wish some of these outlier utility kits were toned down or addressed.

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Not to mention it is better than a invis pot as you can stay on a mount in the outdoors like areas in dungeons and get extra speed while shrouded, and said shroud won’t make you not be able to use a prepot on something as well.

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Yeap… 10/char

There’s a lot more to utility than just shroud and out of combat cc. The aoe stun is king of utility in M+, imho. Knock backs, survivability/soaking abilities, mobility, dispels, roots, all these things matter, and has been presented, are grossly overpresent in 2 or 3 specific classes. I don’t think shroud is a big deal by itself, nor the fact that it’s better than invis pots. But when throw it on top of everything else a rogue brings…you’re crazy not to bring one.

It all matters differently depending on what you consider your preferred range for keys. Keys become fun for me around +14 and my goal is the feat of strength for all timed 15s, and capable of doing a 17 on a good week and the right dungeon. That’s ambitious as a dps warrior needless to say. And as the OP has discussed, about half of that is the actual available utility, and the other half is community perception.

Like why do Druids get good AoE, Displacement (Typhoon),Invis and a Brez all-in-one. (Or you get Resto Druid that have amazing group healing)
Demon hunters get stupid AoE damage, AoE stun and an AoE 20% dodge (not reliable but powerful none-the-less)
Rogues get Shroud, AoE with blade flurry, Sap, Blind, Invis

And then if you want a Hero over Drums you get to pick Resto/Ele Shaman (if the Druid is the healer or not, Ele for a displacement), Mage (For Timewarp) or Hunters (do people even take hunters?)

And generally Tanks will be a DK due to Grip and a Brez.

Yet Paladins get nothing outside of healing and Wars have basically nothing. I don’t really know what Monks do outside of Mistweaver being good. Locks get shafted most of the time unless the Group desperately wants a Brez and can’t find a DK or a Druid. I can’t really remember the last time we had a Priest at 9/10 (tho that could be because I heal most of the time)

I’d be fine if the Utility was spilt between classes. But it feels like some classes are stacked and other are left to rot

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Almost impossible to find a top run without a rogue. I personally would never do any keys without them. They are the true MVP of BFA M+ and everything else in the group is optional.

i’ve seen countless supergeared rogues with 1000-1500 scores that are complete garbage in M+, both in terms of their dps relative to ilvl and in following easily avoidable boss/trash mechanics

i guess that’s what happens when groups will take you continuously regardless of your competence

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1000x this. I don’t think it will be fixed this expansion, unfortunately. I’ve been 1.1k io for at least a month now because no one takes a DPS warrior. I struggle to get into 10s sometimes. I don’t blame them, I wouldn’t invite a warrior either.

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You left out a few things. Druids also get Soothe, which removes enrages. This includes the Raging affix, as well as the stacking enrage the big ghosts in the Golden Serpent room of Kings rest have, and the hounds in Free hold, to name a few. They ALSO can have treants, (trivializes reaping like Earth elemental) mass entaglement, (golden serpent slimes or kiting for necrotic) or potentially vortex which is almost as good as mass grip if used properly for stacking up Reaping mobs.