Mythic lockouts v.9001

So. I create a Nighthold mythic group. We down 8/10 bosses. The game kicks me out. I can’t log in for about 10min. When I come back the group went on and cleared the rest of the raid. Now I’m locked out for the week.
Question: Do the people who designed this system play the game at all? I’m struggling to find the purpose of this other than a cheap shot in the twisted nether regions…

EDIT: I guess the main issue with the system is: I wouldn’t expect the 12 other people that were in my group to wait for me. They shouldn’t be punished because I got kicked off. I also don’t believe that those people knew that if they continued they would be screwing me over. 4 of them were going to roll on the Eventide Helmet I got after we finished. The apparent 15 year long problem seems to be lack of clarity of the rules on Blizzards part. None of them were on my server, they didn’t know me, and I couldn’t tell them to wait anyways…

Did it occur to you that the purpose of the mythic lockout may be difficult to perceive from last expansion’s content?

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facepalm Did it occur to you that a fart in an elevator at floor 1 is still a fart in an elevator at floor 3? Please explain this ‘purpose’ and how it is at all relevant or necessary to keep in the ‘last expansions content’ or in the game at all.

Mythic content being instance locked instead of loot locked like other difficulties was to prevent gearing abuse, selling the last boss kill repeatedly, etc.

Mythic raids work like that because Mythic raiding is the last part of the game left to people who play in dedicated groups the way WoW was before.

I do agree, however, that the loot rules for legacy dungeons should be adjusted.

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Did it occur to you that if you act like an entitled brat people are less likely to help you?

If you had asked a genuine question initially instead of what I’m sure you thought was really funny I would have explained it to you very patiently.

Now that you’ve doubled down on childish behavior I’m going to just tell you to look it up. The answer is all over the internet if you can only be bothered to put in the minimal effort to search for it. Kaercha gave you some good ideas to start with.

Best of luck with puberty! It can be tough for lots of people.

Mythic raid lockout: * works the same way it has worked since 2004 *
People in 2019: * surprised Pikachu face *

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Ah yes selling last boss kills… That actually makes sense for current content. Kinda… I mean people still sell last boss kills as is so… And how would selling kills work IF you could cross realm current mythic content?
Seems like they sort of ‘half-arsed’ implemented the cross realm legacy mythic raiding system without thinking it all the way through.
Zothlar - my dood… you came at me with some half cocked snark comment without any contribution then go on to name calling… nice try guy…
Fancypantsz - have legacy raids always worked like this? And yeah I did notice a ton of articles and reddit posts dating way back while researching this. You think in 15 years they would make it more clear or less … idk … weird? It’s obviously not just me (who is relatively new) that’s thrown off by the systems existence…

Let me help you out with how things actually happened. Despite being “relatively new” you apparently know everything about how the game “should” be working, and asked a half cocked snark question that contributed nothing.

I asked a question meant to get you thinking that maybe you don’t actually have all the answers.

Then you doubled down on being an ignorant know-it-all.

The answers to your question have existed for years. If you want to learn ask a real question, or god forbid do an ounce of looking into it. If you want to keep acting like a tool I’ll keep calling you out on it. How far do you want to go down this road?

Pssst… V.9001 … why would you think I put that in the title… could it be that it’s the 9001 person to comment about this? … C’mon dude… miss me with that nonsense

So you started a new thread on something that’s been said 9000 times before and didn’t think to look for the answer to your questions there?
Do everyone a favor and miss us all with your nonsense.

What’s really funny is how right you think you are through all this.

LOL my doooooood … I never once even hinted at not knowing how the SYSTEM worked… I gave an example of my recent experience then asked:

My man… c’mon dude you knew from the get go that I was talking about legacy content

The reasons for having the system in current mythic DON’T APPLY to legacy raids… Selling? (nope) Community? (it’s cross realm) … Blizzard just kinda copy pasta’d it over… That is the argument I was making while stating

Wrote that implying that the people who read it would put 2 + 2 together…

The first reference I had to the current lockout system by comparing them both to a fart… Because maybe I agree with a few of those 9000 other posts that the system in general is a fart.

I’ll try to translate your questions from arrogant and entitled into intelligent and sincere.

I had a negative experience and I don’t understand why it works this way? Could anyone help explain?

Sorry, there’s no translation for this one. It just screams I know everything and I didn’t get what I want and some stupid developer should fix their stupid game.

If you addressed your initial question differently, you would have received a different answer.

On to your issues.

I knew you thought you were talking about legacy content, but legacy content is actually content that is 11 levels below you. Nighthold is a 110 raid and you are not 121+ so it isn’t legacy content.

I also knew you were talking about Mythic difficulty, which has a specific set of rules for a specific set of reasons. When a new expansion comes out, the old raids don’t suddenly and magically lose their difficulty designation. Even when you are 11 or more levels above the raid, the difficulties are exactly the same as they were when they were current. You get a legacy buff that helps kill things quicker and legacy loot is enabled.

You’re not understanding that Mythic raids were first, and the whole legacy raid thing came much later. Just because the reasons for the mythic rules don’t apply to content that isn’t current doesn’t mean someone has taken the time to change that content when a new expansion is released. Nothing is being copied or pasted. The raids are exactly what they were before. I don’t know how big a programming job it is, but maybe someday they will reprogram all of the legacy raids with a different difficulty setting. Maybe they won’t. Unless it changes, you just have to play by the same mythic rules as everyone else.

A rule that has existed for 15 years can’t really be considered unclear. The exceptions to the rule only started recently.

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It seems like every single time I start or join a mythic legion raid. There is always 1 person that says: “I can’t get in, why can’t I get in?” I was one of those people, then I had to look up what the rules were and now I try to tell the new people how it works.

Yeah, for the people who looked up why something wasn’t working for them or have known about it forever.
Forgive me if I’m wrong but there isn’t anything in game that states the difference of mythic rules.
It would be nice if when you went into a mythic instance a box came up that had a short concise explanation. (with a don’t show me this again check box) It would be even nicer if they did away with the system entirely IMO…

Yes, I knew ‘HOW’ it worked. The reasons ‘WHY’ are flimsy and outdated IMO. I mean you have streamers selling mythics. The lockout pretty much necessitates the need for ‘benched players’ (which is NOT good for the community) … If I’m missing something or you have something to say to refute that, by all means please do so. “It’s been that way for 15 years so shut up” is NOT a valid argument…

Assumption… Which I’m guessing is where your animosity arose from. It implies that if the people who designed the system went through the crap they created, they would fix it. ‘I know everything’ … ‘I didn’t get what I want’ that’s implied nonsense by YOU my dude.

I did not know that. I thought Legacy content was just anything that wasn’t current. That’s tangential to the point though, replace legacy with legion then…

uh… what? lol

So not legion raids though? Or is it cool now to lump legion with legacy now all of the sudden? That’s the whole point, the entire post is in advocacy to reprogramming how mythic rules work in non-current content. At least the lockout, I don’t care too much about the loot rules.
In general though, I think that you shouldn’t be excluded from something you didn’t do. That’s it… And that can apply to current and non-current content. I’m gonna keep on playing by the rules, but that doesn’t mean I have to like them lol
Thank you Zolthar for relaying what you saw and why you responded the way you did, I totally getcha now… I was thinking you were just some psycho for a bit there…

“It’s been that way for 15 years so shut up” isn’t the argument, although the fact that it has remained a consistent part of the game since the beginning is a clue that you should look into it more thoroughly before dismissing it out of hand, as you have multiple times.

Two of the reasons involve how the lockout can be abused by groups at the highest levels of progression. These are the groups that mythic difficulty is designed for, so the fact that they are a small subset of the player base isn’t relevant here; there are other difficulties for everyone else.

First is gear funneling through split runs. If the lockout wasn’t instance based, a raid team could kill as many bosses as possible with a small group of mains and as many alts as the group can carry to trade all of the gear drops to the mains. They then repeat this process by rotating a different group of mains in during each successive run of the raid. This allows the raid team to gear much more quickly, and without losing any time in a progression race, because they would then be able to bring these geared mains together into a single raid for the remaining bosses. With the instance based mythic lockout a split run can only be accomplished at the cost of locking the mains to different raids. The group would be forced to lose any actual progression that week.

The second reason is economic. The mount that is awarded at the end of the mythic tier can only be received by one person per week per raid group. If the raid weren’t instance locked, a group could clear to the final boss, save the ID, and rotate players in to receive up to 20 different mounts in a week. The entire raid could in one week something that is meant to take 5 months. Then, instead of 1 mount sale per week, guild would be able to sell 20 per week. This makes common what is, by design, intended to be uncommon.

There are ways you could change the rules to prevent these things even with a different lockout, but they would not be good for the people mythic is designed for. It isn’t appropriate to expect the intended player base for a type of content to suffer so that it can be more convenient for players who already have other content made for them.

These reasons are as valid today as they were when the lockout was created 15 years ago, so calling them flimsy and outdated is just wrong. There is nothing bad for the community in a group of people who decide to work together for a common goal accepting that not everyone can be in on every boss all the time.

Right, which is you assuming something is broken and that the developers aren’t aware. They know how the lockout works, they made it that way. It’s not broken, which is why they don’t “fix” it. You don’t have all the information and yet seem to have no problem coming to a conclusion.

It’s not at all tangential. Content that is from the previous expansion was deliberately left out of the legacy designation. You wanting it to work differently doesn’t mean that it should.

You said the old raids were copy pasted. They weren’t. It’s not like BFA came out and they reworked all of the old content and imprinted new rules on top of it. The raids are the same as they were when they were current. If you’re 11 levels or higher you get a legacy buff and the loot system recognizes that buff and drops as though the raid were full. But the raids themselves haven’t been altered. There is no copying or pasting anything.

You’re aware that Legion raids will become legacy when the next expansion is released right? Were you thinking that your suggested change would take place immediately? Even if they did change mythic lockouts for legacy content that is a big change that would most likely be part of a new expansion. In other words, by the time any change would occur, Legion would be part of the legacy group. This assumes that they would take the time to make any alteration at all.

In current content, mythic is a group, not a collection of individuals. Even if someone in the group wasn’t part of a kill, the group was and they are part of the group. Hopefully you now understand why it needs to be that way.

It doesn’t need to be that way in raids from previous expansions, but because they’re not generally changing the raids when a new expansion is released, they continue to use the same lockouts they did in the past. While there is nothing wrong in the abstract identifying that it wouldn’t do harm to change them, I don’t know what kind of investment of programming resources would be needed to actually do it.

I’m not a programmer, but it seems like it could be fairly complicated to separate old raids from the difficulty settings of the current raids while maintaining all of the different levels for the normal/heroic/mythic recolors. I know you want it to work differently, and it probably seems to you like it would be an easy fix. But for the people that actually have to do the work to implement it, and without screwing up the current raids, it may be a pretty big job. Maybe someone who knows more about programming could more accurately assess that though.

Agreed change this dumb crap already, this is 2019 why do we need all these dumb lockouts anyways , nobody even plays retail and you wonder why.

Hey! Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Exactly, “because you’ve always done it that way doesn’t make it right”.

Loot lockouts for everything. Player Agency Forever!

Thanks for the spam. It’s always fun when someone doesn’t want to contain their forum beating to one thread…

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I know this is a necro and from september, however

Legion content is technically not legacy content, as it is not affected by legacy loot mode.

So you necro a thread to do what exactly?

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This is like your third necro, you really that bored?