they nerf mage, np boomkin is back. it was meta before the stupid mid season reworks and it will be meta again. ele shaman is also extremely strong, just overshadowed because its not a mage. spriest is locked in because MD and mind soothe are too strong to not have. the only way spriest is out of the meta is if healing priests are big again, and that doesn’t seem to be on the board. you will take a druid, you will take a paladin because the DR is needed. aug is locked in. blizzard doesn’t seem to realize it’s not dps that makes the meta the meta, that or they don’t want to change anything significant…you know, except for that time they added an entire new role and reworked mages…wait a min…
Augmentation evoker design is problematic.
High utility at no or minimal dps loss.
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Precisely. But it’s never been this egregious. The fallout is appears to be negatively affecting all levels of mythic plus.
The worst part is that they’re nerfing damage and healing which isn’t going to fix anything and ultimately it is just a nerf to raiding teams for the sake of their fumbled development between classes and encounters.
but if they gut damage and healing by 50% the meta will change (the meta, might also not be viable anymore.)
So kneecapping players to fix their mistakes. Sounds like a great way to make friends and influence people.
But it’s not kneecapping, it’s trying to find balance. At some point, tuning %, the meta will fall out of favor or be seen as equal with everyone else.
The only difference is if classes are released at that state to begin with.
If hypothetical balance is achieved, would you advocate reverting all the nerfs that it took to get there? Or just buffing other classes (for some random reason.)
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If it took a 50% nerf to any of the meta spec it would be even stronger evidence that the value is not in the damage or healing potential, but rather the utility.
Excepting Mage, none of the other specs are particularly exceptional with regard to damage or healing in any other PvE context. Paladin as a healer is inferior in Raid to all the other healers. Spriest is parsing below numerous other damage dealers.
Depends if you mean balance via encounter adjustments, or damage/healing. The PI + Aug combo needs damage tuning. Aug needs tuning, but the encounters need to be fixed first. Once that happens, buffs and nerfs could be better applied where appropriate.
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If it took a 50% nerf to any of the meta spec it would be even stronger evidence that the value is not in the damage or healing potential, but rather the utility.
Excepting Mage, none of the other specs are particularly exceptional with regard to damage or healing in any other PvE context. Paladin as a healer is inferior in Raid to all the other healers. Spriest is parsing below numerous other damage dealers.
If after a 50% nerf, they’re still able to be on par with everyone else, isn’t that all the more reason to believe that the specs were drastically overtuned?
Depends if you mean balance via encounter adjustments, or damage/healing. The PI + Aug combo needs damage tuning. Aug needs tuning, but the encounters need to be fixed first. Once that happens, buffs and nerfs could be better applied where appropriate.
What encounter adjustments? Damage has always infinitely scaled, and at some points, it becomes lethal enough to kill people to the point of needing externals.
If you mean by changing how useful Mass Dispel and Mind Soothe are, I suppose.
Damage and healing has to come from somewhere if you nerf the meta comp that much (and they still manage to be on par.)
As it stands no class could withstand a 50% nerf. Let’s put that hypothetical to bed. It’s not an option.
That’s precisely what I and so many other players mean.
There are too many times when Mass Dispel is useful, but the answer is not to nerf priests. It’s to balance how many times it’s useful.
Edit: Name an affix and see which combo of classes covers the most of them and I bet the meta comp will come up most of the time.
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At what point does “the high end” stop mattering in infinitely scaling content? At a certain point, even minor balance or utility imperfections are going to make or break runs with certain comps. It’s literally never going to be perfect from +2 to +33, it’s ALWAYS going to narrow to the objectively best comps at the high end because it will stop being possible with less focused comps. SPECIFICALLY because it just keeps scaling. There’s no way to magically make it perfect in this context.
If those best comps aren’t required to complete content at the levels in which it’s relevant for average players / where rewards are in place (see: +2 to thru +20 in Dragonflight (Though you could argue +16 with how things currently work)), then it’s good enough.
It’s okay if a class/spec is good at dealing with certain parts of certain dungeons more than other classes. That’s to be expected in a game with more than 1 class. It just gets exaggerated because of infinite scaling.
Would you rather we just scrap M+ entirely and cap dungeons at Mythic 0’s again so these issues don’t come up? Because at this point we’re either looking at doing that, or looking at balancing and designing dungeons around levels that 99% of players will never touch, which is ridiculous.
If we want to talk about giving Mass Dispell to another class or 2 (to be more in line with other big utility like Brez and Lust), that’s fine, but that’s the extent this kind of discussion should go, rather than focusing so hard on precise tuning of infinitely scaling content.
The problem becomes when 85% of the title holders are the same 5 class/specs, this has never happened, in fact a streamer (maybe Dratnos?) did a video pointing this out, that even when destro/surv hunter was Stier the gap of them getting titles vs other specs wasn’t even remotely in the realm of this current issue.
This is the first time gearing has been this easy. It not only enables fotm re-rolling it borderline encourages it.
They were strong. But most of that strength was personal survivability and output. Exodia has too much group utility and synergy.
But that is okay. This is an mmorpg. Players working together and using group utility is a good thing.
It becomes not a good thing when 5 classes or specs have huge synergy and the rest have little or none. 5% output nerfs to exodia and 2% aura buffs to rogue or hunter is not fixing this.
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I’m genuinely SO confused by your responses; on one hand you’re disagreeing with me, and in the next quote you’re basically directly quoting what I’ve been saying.
The gearing is not the reason, those of us who play too much and at a high level have always been able to quickly gear a character, the reason this time is because the gap is much, much larger than it’s ever been on any meta comp.
These 5 classes, synergistically, are an unprecedented power level of utility and DPS output that will not change until PI and Mind Soothe are nerfed, and the problem there is that it will make priests gutter tier and sucks as well.
These minor nerfs are not enough to break the synergy, and the 2% just allows us the illusion of climbing higher while still leaving us the EXACT SAME DISTANCE behind the title as we currently are.
I truly don’t understand your stance.
To add a quick edit; mages are not only top tier because of their damage, it is the synergy w Aug+PI, as well cauterize, the new IB talent @ 70% reduction, invis, mirror images, poly, an ability to lose very minimal ST damage while speccing AOE, mass barrier and several other things.
HPal and Mage kits are overloaded, Aug is broken and required due to it’s ability to keep people alive as much as do damage/buff damage, priest is REQUIRED due to PI/Mind Soothe and bears simply scale the best vs high amounts of targets. None of these current changes have fixed the issue.
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Revert the dispel cooldown to just a single global and this will eliminate the mandatory need for mass dispel in some dungeons. It’s too late to fix the dungeon flaws. Keep dispel at 8 seconds for PVP. This will at least allow other dps besides spriest. PI is good but other classes can make up for the lack thereof.
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raider dot io says your main hasn’t done a 19 yet this season
I think that will end up being the meta next season. I’m gonna boost my disc and have hpal / disc both ready cuz it feels like pally is getting nerfed into the dirt.
It’s gonna be like destro lock or something that steps in to replace shadow priest, maybe you run VDH as the tank if bear gets nerfed and you slot in a boomkin.
Was the desired effect to piss off people? Because way to go on that one.
So, you’re telling me that making huge nerfs and not actually addressing the problem has a negative side effect? Who knew?
Players knew the release date for Aug and EVERYONE knew it was going to be overpowered. I’m sure some people rerolled after the fact, but most of the were leveling and gearing their evokers ready to adopt the new spec the day it released.
Also, most of the top players have all the main contenders leveled and ready to min/max the moment the wind changes. It’s happened every single season.
Let’s take a look at who’s received a major rework this season:
Paladin, Mage, Priest, Evo->Aug, Shaman and?
The negative side effect is they lazily ripped the 0.1% title from PvP and applied it to mythic+ without having aspects from PvP that actually make it work like artificial MMR inflation and actually being able to lose rating, making it so 2 weeks of bad tuning doesn’t cement title spots.
3kio and still getting declined this didnt fix the problem.