Thats a very backwards way of looking at it. Nothing about the game is stacked against anyone so thats a fantasy argument. You are essentially arguing that a game having a purpose is inherently evil and only there for ego purposes. I would say its the foundation of every game ever and you are entirely confused. Would you also argue that Mario should require no Stars to see Bowser because its “just stacking the game against people without time to collect stars?” should there be no reward for collecting all the stars in a perfectly logical feedback loop that gives you a reason for collecting all the stars? Is that just “stroking my ego” or is having meaning behind doing something just basic logic on a fundamental level?
If even the most casual of games like Mario or the recent Hades can have things only the most dedicated can get then what exactly is WoWs population base? Literal toddlers with no desire to play but still wanting the rewards anyways? Anti gamers? Odd argument man, dare I say, cringe.
Item level is linear. Power is not linear. The power boost from gear has never been linear.
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I’m quite surprised by this thread after being away from it overnight.
Can some of you guys who were active in it describe to me your concerns?
Perhaps I still don’t understand the topic.
You are upset that Mythic Denathrius drops gear that is better than all other content?
Is that the key issue, despite it existing in Nyalotha too?
Or does some one have some evidence that a 226 item from the M+ cache is actually factually worse than a 226 from Mythic Nathria?
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All endgame is hard in their own respect, i dont know why you guys let yourselves get sucked into a preheat troll thread
I’d argue that completing a +15 is on par with the first 2-3 bosses of a mythic raid, in terms of difficulty.
We still looking love you big guy.
Why? This is one of the dumbest arguments I see from the GD heroes…
If you want to reward the “organization” (lol) of a large group over a small groups then give better loot to the raid lead and maybe an officer or two.
Remind me why Joe Average who shows up to the raid on Thursday night at 8, listens to the raid lead and stands on X when he gets the debuff should get better loot than guys running +20s all where the communication and organization needed is massively bigger than a raid?
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You’re giving Joe Average way too much credit. 
Otherwise, I totally agree with you.
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You are absolutely lost in bias, my friend.
The amount of people. that’s the reason.
What am I missing? Was it ever intended to be better than mythic raid gear at any point?
Honest question
more people = more harder in terms of coordination, and raiding is all about coordination. People like to compare M+ 5 man difficulty to Raiding difficulty but totally ignore the progression and coordination aspect of raiding even when comparing to something like Mythic+10 or +15 in which there is practically 0 progression and coordination boils down to “interrupt, sometimes, might not matter”.
I understand that people don’t like “raid or die”, but “equivalent” levels of raiding NEED to be rewarded comparatively better for the effort involved to be worthwhile.
And the game is very far from “raid or die” now anyway.
It was an issue in, say, WoD, because there was 0 alternative. You did Heroic Dungeons then you Raided or you sat at Heroic dungeon gear forever, maybe a freebie here and there from the Garrison.
It’s much less of an issue now.
We have World Content that rewards up to Normal Raiding ilvl. We have weekend events that reward Normal and Heroic Raiding ilvl. We have Mythic+ which rewards 3 ilvl less than Heroic Raiding ilvl per run but slightly less than Mythic Raiding ilvl on a weekly basis.
“Raid or Die” doesn’t mean “Raiding offers the best loot and that’s bad”. It means there’s literally nothing to do but raid if you want to progress.
If I designed the game, I’d remove mythic raiding because it causes too much drama. Have heroic drop 213 max, and give the best rewards from PVP and M+, because both of these modes are infinitely scalable in difficulty in a way and are the true end game that last all patch, even after you finish the raid in a week or two.
I cannot argue with this. In my experience with both mythic and heroic raiding, the hardest part is just getting 20 people to not make that one little mistake they make sometimes, all at the same time.
Aside from that, I just want to say that you speak very reasonably. I like that and I respond best to such. I dont necessarily think that its raid or die, but I do have a huge problem with the last two bosses having such a large difference in gear. If they literally corrected just that one thing, along with the new changes to the weekly chest, I would be 100pct content. Even with the end of dungeon changes.
I simply cannot accept that gear as being unobtainable any other way. I main a mage. That azerite from mythic carapace and nzoth is considerably better than the alternative, both in trait and stats. Then theres the matter of the weapon, of course, though less impactful.
Those items are the difference between being stuck pushing in the low 20s, to pushing in the high 20s.
We will see how it goes, but gear does not really matter in mmos anymore. So who cares about throw away stuff?
I feel like that’s actually the opposite of the truth. They want PvPers and M+ to do other content and reward them for doing so.
The PvP gearing issue will never be fixed because they should all be completely separate progression paths - meaning PvP gear is useless in PvE and vice versa
You can tell yourself that to justify your own privilege. That’s what privileged people do. But if you as a designer want your game to be played by many people rather than a few, stacking the deck against the majority and telling them to accept the fact that they have no chance to progress and no choice but to continue playing a game that is not fun is hardly going to win you customers. It’s going to result in lots of people leaving the game, regardless of how you want to relate to other games.
Justifying your own privilege is exactly what I expect the privileged to do.
The basic concept here is not that you deserve this and others deserve to suffer at your hands for not having chosen to be you. It is that this is an entertainment product that people buy to be entertained. When they find it is not entertaining and it is designed to have them serve as your entertainment, no amount of flustering to declare the game is in accord with some arbitrarily designated natural order of things will keep them playing.
Mythic raids are the hardest content in the game, they should have rewards be better than M+ gear.
Some people would say that high level keys are harder than m+
Who knows or cares, like I said people who care about gear are silly. Gear does not matter anymore.
High level keys don’t revolve around organizing 20 people to do their job correctly.