I can’t get into a 8+ keys anymore on my lock and I finished all 7+ and done one timed 9+. Right now this what I see on my screen
Delisted
Delisted
Delisted
Declined
Declined
Declined
Delisted
Declined
Expired
Declined.
Then I get into a group and your tank over pulls and caused 8+ deaths and rage quits. Now I am back into this chain of delisting and declining. Something needs to change here otherwise, you’re cause more sub loses.
It’s interesting how different people experience things. When I did m+, I only ever pugged because I don’t have any friends who play. I wasn’t fond of the long queues and wasn’t thrilled with a game mode that was 80% dpsing while dodging but the thing I hated most was the people. I’d delete my account before ever setting foot in m+ again. I love delves specifically because of the lack of m+ people there.
I think the friends/guild vs pug divide is what makes so many of these topics contentious. People who primarily experience one have a difficult time understanding the perspective of the other. I can’t really visualize m+ being anything other than repugnant and you probably can’t visualize delves being anything other than dull.
What mechanic(s) are you not seeing?
talks about appearance being a component of social status while wearing a hideous murloc onesie. the jokes write themselves.
How about Maw of Souls and Halls of Valor!?
This is a great post… i feel like part of the reason Mythic+ gear is gated higher is due to the frequency you can get the gear (you can run 10 keys a day/7 days a week for maybe 3-5 loot drops per day depending on luck) but with raid you likely will get 1-2 pieces per week… so rather than having everyone hop into Mythic+ and outgear the raid they are progressing, they wanted to up the barrier to get that equal quality gear to prevent people from just chaining M+ keys. Delves are already restricted by needing maps to get the heroic gear, so its already a drop chance requirement for a chance. There are more avanues to get Heroic gear, but they are all restricted in some way. Mythic+ has the most potential for gear while also taking the longest and most investment.
Tldr the game is meant to be played through all the different aspects gearing up in many ways, but raids have always been the main aspect of WoW
I don’t think people are really angry about the squish.
What I mean is the squish happened last season and largely wasn’t complained about.
I think what is driving the people away from mythics ( in no particular order )
I really don’t know if any of us can really know what the cause is. There were so many changes all at once, that it’s going to be impossible to nail down a primary cause. Not to mention the only season we had with the squish was a throwaway season with access to literally the best items in the game through Bullions and the most number of characters starting 13 - 26 item levels off max, rather than the 100 from a new expansion.
I don’t dispute that some of the other things you listed are also playing a factor. But any player that would have run 2 - 11 keys at the start of the first season of a new expansion to get both gear and experience for working into higher keys physically can no longer do so. Whatever alternative they use for gear will not give them M+ experience in those dungeons the way a lower level of key would. Thus, some players who want to run M+ early on in a season are forced into another piece of content, and then STILL have to run lower levels of M+ despite not really needing much gear just to build the strategies and execution.
I don’t know what you mean.
I just levels a warrior yesterday. I got said warrior to 580 straight up by buying stuff from Mr. finely
By the end of my play session I was at 600 even from doing delves. Today I will do 4 more delves.
What I was trying to convey is that we have no way to assess the sentiment around the squish because of the downstream impacts it had on other aspects of M+. Players who can’t step right into a current +2 needs to run other content for that gear. And by running other content they won’t be building experience in the keys to be able to know mechanics for the higher keys nor have the IO to indicate they should be able to succeed in a higher key. None of these things were nearly as big of a deal going into DF S4 because a good chunk of the characters that were running M+ were already geared enough to step foot into a new +2 compared to when it’s the first season of a new expansion.
Yea i think that is a fair statement.
I find them extremely dull and luckily our M+ group and our subs are primarily RL friends so im sure that makes a world of difference.
I will definitely say that the pugging environment is highly volatile between people not knowing what they are doing and are in keys they shouldnt be in and the people who know what they are doing but have absolutley no patience or chill for any errors or percieved lack of skill… its a wild problem to try and solve.
I wonder if guilds actually meant something again if that would change the dynamics… or create a bigger problem…
We are pushing into 11s pretty causally and low stress. Our raid group which half my M+ group is a part of, is a hodge pogde of skill levels and personalities that takes it time to get through content but almost always gets aotc. Some of us raid in multiple guilds on multiple characters but the core group has stayed the same for years. But isnt that the point of most MMOs? To game with others? Create guilds/clans united to enjoy the game in the ways they see fit? I understand everyones social needs are different and their time allowance varies but those who seek a primarily solo adventure in this game kinda confuse me. As an introvert i understand the appeal to an extent but i wouldnt play this game if i was trying to do everything solo.
Also im aware the original post was on M+ being devalued and im now way off track lmao
It actually does. M+ killed many raid teams and Guilds in general. M+ was not healthy for large groups having fun in the game, at all. It lead to small groups of good players bailing on raiding all together as it was easier to just run M+ together, as opposed to trying to teach others the mechanics of the raid bosses. It’s fine I don’t really care anymore, but M+ killed many many guilds and raid teams.
Did you even read what you typed out here before hitting submit? So it’s bad that players who would prefer to play with players their own strength rather than being expected to carry players who aren’t at their level have the ability to do so? It’s good for players who don’t want to raid have no other way to engage with the endgame to prop up those who aren’t good enough to survive on their own merits? That’s what you think a healthy game looks like?
Of course, that also doesn’t even address the part that you quoted in my statement. Regardless how many guilds may have disappeared due to M+, there are still plenty of guilds raiding normal and heroic. Nothing about the introduction of M+ changed that. There is no need to touch M+ to get AOTC, as exhibited by guilds like mine.
By your own admission, M+ killed raid teams by allowing better players a way to engage in the endgame without having to carry players not on their level. As far as I’m concerned, that’s a good thing for everyone involved, save for those who feel entitled to the carry those better players were providing.
Feels like you could apply some sense of this argument to the positives or negatives of GDKP as it rewards poor people who are not on the same level as people that are above their level in monetary ability.
Yes, it was bad for many groups. Exactly and I’m glad you understood my point.
No one is entitled. There was a TON of fun in bringing together players of different skill levels. The Leroy Jenkins meme became popular for a reason. Now it would never happen.
Sure, but everyone goes into a GDKP raid with an understanding of their place in the transaction. Players who need nothing but just want a payday know they are likely going to carry a larger burden in exchange for the gold. That’s quite different from a guild where everyone should pull their own weight, and those that aren’t being upset those that are decide to leave.
Fun for who? The players who are leeching off those who are carrying their weight probably are having a grand time. But for the players doing the carrying, was it fun for them? Nothing forced them to bail when M+ came around; it seems likely they weren’t having fun if they decided to leave. Most people don’t like being the host of a parasite…
Also, feel free to look up the reaction of the players who are in the group when Leeroy happened. It’s great for all of us nearly 2 decades later, but most of them weren’t laughing.