Mythic+ Difficulty and Rating Adjustments

As we previously noted, we’ve increased the difficulty of Mythic+ dungeons at keystone 10 and higher in Dragonflight, to better match the quality of rewards offered by those difficulties.

Following testing and feedback, and considering how much players enjoy pursuing Keystone Master as a seasonal goal, we’ve decided to make an adjustment to grant additional Mythic+ Rating for keys above Level 10:

  • M+ keys at each keystone level from 11 and up are now worth an additional 2 points of Rating. For example, in Shadowlands Season 4, completing a dungeon exactly on time on both Fortified and Tyrannical would net you a Rating of 250 for that dungeon. In Dragonflight Season 1, you will now earn 270 Rating.

This means that while keys above Level 10 will become more difficult and you may not be able to push as high as you did in recent Shadowlands seasons, you’ll achieve Keystone Master at lower keystones. We expect players who previously earned this achievement to find the challenge about the same as before.

Thank you very much for your testing and feedback!



…an entirely reasonable change, honestly. Cool!


Nice, I like that update.

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Fortified and Tyrannical what? 15?

I’m not exactly sure what is happening in this new system.

Currently upgrading your key by 1 level on gives either 7.5 or 2.5 points, and together gives you +10 points per keystone level. Does this mean you now get 9.5 or 4.5 points, +14 points per keystone level?

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This is honestly hilarious. Could have saved yourselves a lot of effort by just leaving everything the same as SL and just increasing the max upgrade level.


What will be the rating needed for each valor upgrade?

They posted it awhile ago, unless theyre changing it.
However i urge blizzard not to change the valor upgrade scores

Here is official blizzard link not wowhead

Again i emplore blizz not to change the valor ratings for upgrading gear. Outside no-lifers that do nothing but grind. Getting and upgrading gear for the average player takes awhile. Increasing valor / rank would be a big feelsbad for the other 90%

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This sounds like a good change.

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Exactly, %100. This type of change is extremely hard to wrap my head around. If you only need 13s for ksm and 13s are gonna be around the same as 15s now, then…? This type of change only seems to contribute more to gatekeeping gear.


Positive change, keeps rating attainable by average skilled players who work hard while keeping the highest level gear in the highest skilled hands.

As long as the upgrade rating requirements are in sync with KSM and where they used to be, this is good.

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Will these be massively more difficult with the adjustments post 10+ and the 40% more damage added despite the 40% hp change? Cause if it takes longer to heal and it hits harder that just sounds :open_mouth:

According to my mental napkin math it’ll be this much harder:

2% more difficult 10-12
3% more 12-14
4% more difficult 15-16

and it goes up from there in my mind due to holy moly moments and time to recover which factors into the time needed to complete. This is a random number I pulled out of thin air but if it takes an additional heal to get up and the healer goes oom there could be some rough moments as the dungeon goes on. And the higher you go the harder it is on the healer ‘if’ anyone takes damage. Therefore dps might suffer a little as people have to hit heals/cds/cc/panic buttons to recover to help triage healing in high keys.

And of course they were already made harder above 10+ already so it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. But the extra rating I’m sure will help at least somewhat.

Btw I just had a redbull and am massively buzzed I might take off out of my chair soon.

Edit: Not related to the thread but which might be nice: M+ xmog collections from a vendor at +5, +10, +15, +20 would be cool. Weapons and gear.

To be fair, +15 dungeons were absolute free loot. MM+ should be considered a real content and a +15 should mean something. It’s a matter of giving a merited reward and balancing all rewards accross the game to give Raid a little more of a reason to be done.

In DF, they aligned +20 to be in line with a mythic raid Difficulty, as a result, +15 should be about to be in line with Heroic.

As it was in DF and BFA, +20 were almost as difficult than a 7/10 boss in Heroic and +15 could be compared to Normal raid difficulty.

I think this change will be good for players who dont want to push in MM+, but it will feel weird when you’ll get your season mount with only +13/+14 completed. It think they should just had let it a little harder than before. Now it’s like giving the Curve mount at 6/10 HM boss completed.


You should also make keys above 15 give 3 more rating per level and keys above 20 give 4 more per level.

So the score better reflects the difficulty between each level.

Right now the score difference between some one doing 30-32s and some one doing 28-30s is very small.

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so achievement wise nothing changes, all this does is make people who want to mythic + farm / push be forced to raid instead because raid gear ultimately will trump m+ gear once again because either blizzard still doesnt recognise that the m+ has its own community or they just want to gate keep on gear which in turn slows the progression of pve content, business wise a great strategy cause it forces us to keep the grind going, fun wise it may reach a point where people just wont be bothered doing m+ because its to hard and not rewarding enough

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Depleted keys should also give no score what so ever.


Difficulty is subjective. What might be easy for you could be extremely hard for your average player.

Also let’s not forget that KSM only 25% got KSM in Season 4 and that number includes players with multiple altss so the real number might be closer to 15-20%.

Also s4 had a super generous kiss/curse affix so doing a 15 was super easy.

If DF season 1 ended tomorrow id guess the number that get 15s timed might be closer to 15% with maybe 10% unique (not including players that have multiple alts at 15s)


I get your point, but objectively, KSM isn’t as Hard as getting the Curve done, especially in the end of a patch, when content is facerolled.

If someone does not have his KSM, it’s probably because they dont care having it, where in raid, it’s a totally other world in order of grouping accessibility, overall difficulty, practice frequence and tactics learning.

I really dont think KSM would have dropped so heavelly as it would only require to do the equivalent of current 16-17 difficulty to achieve it, which isnt much harder than +15.

As it is, +15 are frequently done with 10-15 minutes left on timer. Given you have all this room before failing, +16 and +17 are achievable even by doing it a little bit slower. Players who would have wanted it would have done it.

Problem is most people just stop after their +15, without even trying to get further, as they know Meta elitism starts at 18-19 and they wont achieve Keystone Hero because of it or because they dont care the reward or pushing their rating.

As for the players who dont get KSM at the moment, they wont even care having it, as they do it right now, so i dont know why you put them in this conversation, as they probably dont are the target audience of the MM+ feature in the first place.

Neither KSM nor AotC is hard at the end of a patch.

It’s a bit disingenuous to infer any conclusion about DF Mythic+ difficulty based on how Mythic+ works in Shadowlands, and more importantly the current season.

If anything most people are going to find the step up with Mythic+ DF to be similar to their experience when they stepped into Heroic dungeons at the outset of Catalcysm and found they were much, much harder than the prior expansion. So buckle up.

The meta elitism starts much, much earlier than that. Just ask anyone who plays a really off-meta spec how difficult it can be trying to get into a +2 all because the group leader believes you need the meta classes to time it.


Maybe you’re right, but the real wall is there. Before that, you can pretty much play what you want and even if it takes 3-4 times the number of resquest to invite to be picked, you’ll be able to find a group anyway. I played off-meta specs pretty much all Shadowlands (Prot-Arms war S1, MM hunt S2 and VDH S3-4) and i never had any real wall before that. Sure, there is the case of real Dead specs (like MW monk in SL) but, there’s 2-3 of them per patch and unfortunately, it’s more a case of Blizz doing a bad job in Class design than a case of player elitism.

Yes, it’s a community perception, but sometimes, the community’s right. When Demonology warlock got heavely nerfed in WoD, Blizz answered they dont want you to play the spec, essentially because they were working on a total rework of the spec for Legion and they nerfed it to the ground to make players let got the ancient spec design. At this point, the spec was a real Dead spec.

You’re right, but where a player is most likelly to not being picked if he does not have AOTC, after some weeks into the patch, and the NM runs become rarer after a while, through all the season, there is always low and middle MM+ keys to augment your rating, in order to work towards being accepted in higher keys. Having a guild cut off pretty much all the difficulty in both content, tho.