My thoughts on raid difficulty, loot, mythic, 0.1%

There was a time on World of Warcraft that I’d raid happily a few nights a week doing the hardest content. We wiped, we laughed, we eventually achieved our goals in getting the best current crop of gear available at the time. It was a challenge, but it was a hard enough challenge and it felt satisfying.

Unfortunately these days on World of Warcraft it’s impossible for me to get that same feeling of character progression. But why is that?

It’s too difficulty to achieve any sort of BiS in every slot and I believe this is a massive mistake. But why is it too difficulty?

1) Mythic raiding

Mythic raiding drops the highest ilvl gear in the game but the difficulty of the raid is far too high for most players, even players who are above average at the game won’t even attempt to do the raid. They may over gear some of the first bosses later but killing the last few bosses? No chance. This doesn’t help when the later bosses now have a slight bonus to their ilvl.

So far less then 20 guilds have killed Zovaal on mythic raiding? You want one of his items for your character? Well I’m afraid it’s more of a dream then reality for most of us.

2) Weekly chest

I’d hazard a guess and say most of us get upgrades now from the weekly chest? Personally I’ve been doing my 10-15 M+ keys the last few expansions to get the highest ilvl gear. But there is a problem and the problem is the lottery chest. I have roughly counted there is 80 items my spec can get from M+ weekly chest, the chances I will get that specific trinket or weapon is extremely low with only 3 available chances each week. I know I’m not the only one who may go entire patches missing out on a specific drop because of the system in place.

This doesn’t help matters when a new patch is released and you have to go over the same lottery process again.

Another problem having a mythic raiding ilvl for non-mythic raiders is you find players are just waiting for the weekly chest to get upgrades. I personally preferred the feeling of going to a raid, overcoming a challenging boss and the loot it drops is the upgrade.

Before I offer my thoughts on how to fix this problem let me just state, I’m not a top tier player. But I’d say I’m above average. I can complete mage tower in less then 15 attempts, I do 15+ mythic keys quite comfortably and games that are known to be notoriously challenging I can complete in an average time. (Dark Souls, etc)

So what would I do? I believe loot should be more accessible in terms of the highest ilvl to the player. Heroic raiding is a enough of a challenge, especially this tier.

I strongly believe Heroic raiding should drop the highest ilvl.

Like in the past, the challenge is hard but it’s doable for a larger pool of the player base. They will feel rewarded that they can get the highest loot in the game and it’s not a distant dream like it is now, plus they won’t have to wait for a weekly chest. Not only do I think this would motivate players to actually raid more, I believe players would be more likely to gear up their alts as well. It would still take you months to get all the gear like it did in the past.

Potentially then you could unhook the weekly chest away from raiding, but I’m still up in the air about this.

The weekly chest for M+ needs extra ways to tie down the loot, there is just far too many items you can possibly get. It isn’t fun doing your tasks all week to have the slightest of chances of getting the loot you want.

There should be a way to either slot your weekly chest to a certain gear slot, dungeon or perhaps even boss.

This way it’s not an impossible task to get the gear you want. You need a weapon? Then slot the chest to a weapon slot, a boss that drops a weapon or to that dungeon that drops one.

Make the game rewarding for more of the players again.

On a side note, if they want to continue Mythic Raiding then I’m fine with it. But I personally feel it should just drop cosmetic items.

These are my personal thoughts on the current state of World of Warcraft endgame.

Thanks for reading!

Peace :v:

20 Likes

I second your sentiments.

Though looking at my/potentially your personal bias, are we saying this because we don’t mythic raid?

How would mythic raid remain rewarding to those 20 groups that have done it?

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I think so too

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It’s not like I’m taking mythic raiding away, just the ilvl of the gear. I hate to speak for the mythic raiders but I think a part of the satisfaction of doing mythic raiding may come from the challenge. So the challenge can be tuned to be the same, but other rewards should be more cosmetic based, so mounts, transmogs, etc.

But I believe heroic raiding is a hard enough challenge for the majority of players and this should drop the highest gear in the game.

7 Likes

I had a weird idea and was wondering what your sentiments would be. How would mythic raid allowing gear to warforge be to you? Everything you said stays the same.

That was a long time ago.

Also did you get bis back then?

sounds like your goals have changed. Or more so, sounds like you’ve changed.

then do that.

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Gear should be cap at Heroic ilvl. Mythic should be transmog only that goes away when the next raid opens up. This will preserved the unique rewards and also make it harder for top guilds to sell boosts.

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Yes, it was challenging but attainable. The problem these days is the difficulty of mythic raiding and the lottery of the weekly chest. Also this isn’t a nostalgia post, heroic raiding is far harder then any of the raids 12+ years ago and I believe it’s a more worthy challenge to drop the highest gear.

My goal of progressing my character has only changed because of the barriers Blizzard have put up.

Also, we all change over time. :man_shrugging:

But it is,

You want heroic bosses dropping mythic loot even though old normal (now heroic) never dropped old heroic (now mythic) loot.

This is 100% a nostalgia bait. You say raiding is harder than back then, kinda not really as players skill levels have gone way up. Just look at old world first videos with people half afk and clicking every 4 seconds.

Why don’t you join a mythic guild if you want mythic loot? Or do what a very large amount of people do and just hit up the vault if you don’t want to commit to raiding?

2 Likes

Part of the reason players do Mythic is the gear. It’s not always going to be the motivation, but for many it is the motivation. Taking away their better gear - and what would you even need it for if not Mythic - is just targeting their endgame in order to lower the skill and effort requirement for the best gear - and you won’t even be using the best gear where it’s intended.

What, precisely, do you need the BiS gear for if not for the hardest content where it should drop?

Raiding is certainly harder than it was back in the day, and I can say that very confidently as someone doing TBC right now. While we were all (for the most part) worse players, we also didn’t have access to the plethora of information and addons and other resources we have now. That combined with a lack of understanding for the, “best” way to do things simply held many players back. Don’t forget we didn’t have the best guilds actively testing content before it’s released (thus releasing guides and allowing Blizzard to properly tune it), we all went in dark and Blizzard had to patch things live.

Players today still make mistakes on, “easy” content. That’s just the nature of humans. But Mythic requires far more time, gold, research, and effort than old raiding did. The sheer amount of pulls and vast quantity of gold poured into it is evidence for that.

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Did you just not read the second part of what you quoted? The people clearing world first content in tbc would be instantly kicked from anything above a normal dungeon if they played the same way obviously.

The best is 1000000x better and the worst is better than even world first raiders “back in the day”.

You could make an argument comparing legion-bfa-shadowlands and 9.2 seems* harder than most.

*seems harder because this is the first patch going from 1 raid into the next that the power of characters went down. (Losing dom shards).

This is just not true in the slightest. Yes, not all world first raiders back in the day were even average today, but they were still far better than the, “worst” of today. A few hours of retail showed me that very clearly.

You also completely ignored everything I said, whilst claiming I ignored what you said.

As I said, player skill has gone up on average - and yes, top players are tremendously better - but so too has the testing, Blizzard’s design/balancing, resources, guides, simulations, theorycrafting, etc. All of it has gotten incredibly better, and yet we’re still seeing hundreds of pulls to kill bosses where that didn’t happen to the same extent in the old raids.

Many guilds were hardstuck, but that was more of a player issue than the content issue. The old raids are largely faceroll and I can attest to that. Outside Vash/KT pre-nerf (though, KT’s difficulty was primarily being buggy) TBCC has been a cakewalk. SWP seems to be a jump in difficulty, but the rest has been day one/week one kills.

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They literally weren’t even close. The hunter that mds the healer and barrages half the dungeon played better than people in 2006.

The game is keeping up with player skill and some people like op who just want to relive the glory days (and myself frankly idgaf about raiding anymore) fall behind it is what it is.

BUT changing rewards to accommodate people who don’t want to put the effort in is not the solution.

Again, you’re simply not correct. You can bring up some clips of some world first raiders playing poorly, but there are just as many clips of people playing insanely well - especially some very well known PvPers like Vurtne. What he did at the time was simply insane. It’s likely if he played at the level he did back then today (which, he wouldn’t, as he quit early in TBC) then he wouldn’t get very far at all, but at the time it was amazing.

The game has ramped up in difficulty far more than it ever had in the past. That much is just fact. Even with all the other things I mentioned also getting far and away better, the best players are still struggling a lot on Mythic.

Mythic is for the most part harder than any content that came before it. Especially the latter half.

I didn’t say that it was.

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Why the long winded vomit rant… just to agree with me? Thanks I guess?

Are you intentionally ignoring literally everything in my post except a single cherry picked quote?

The whole point of what I very clearly explained is that the game back then was nowhere near as hard relatively as it is now. The top tier content was easier than the top tier content now, even adjusting for the differences in player skill. I agree that if the best players back then played at the same skill level the did back then (not relatively), without improving at all, they’d be at best average. But the worst players of today are still worse.

Much of the difficulty of older WoW was the lack of resources, including knowledge, testing, balancing, guides, simulations, and in-depth theorycrafting. It wasn’t just the content.

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No gonna lie here, can’t take anything you say seriously seeing as how you don’t even know what side of the discussion you are even on.

You are literally agreeing with me all while screeching I am wrong. Kinda cringe.

My entire point is that even if they would be considered bad players, they still wouldn’t be as bad as the worst players we have today if they played the same that they did in 2006~2009. I also disagree that raiding isn’t harder today than it was back then, which you have stated you believe to be the case. Raiding is demonstrably harder, and I’m not just talking relatively.

I know what side I’m on.

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I want heroic gear to be the highest ilvl.

You said that raiding “has kinda not” got harder? I flat out disagree. Raids these days are way more challenging then previously and yes, players skill levels have gone up. So has the addons that help raiders tackle tough mechanics, there is a lot of variables but it’s undeniable in my mind that raiding has got harder.

If I was speaking purely from nostalgia I’d be asking for LFR/Normal difficulty to drop the highest gear possible. I believe Mythic raiding puts players off raiding and trying to progress their characters, I believe waiting for a lottery weekly chest is a poor way to gear up your character.

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Why do you need the best gear if you don’t do the hardest content?

Raids prior to multiple difficulties were on par with Normal-Heroic compared to today, with later raids and later bosses generally being harder. Some bosses could reach Mythic difficulty.

I disagree that Mythic puts anyone off raiding, unless they want the best gear but don’t want to do the content where it drops. Personally, while I did raid Mythic for a time, I dropped down to Heroic before I quit because I simply couldn’t enjoy the Mythic difficulty. Skill-wise I could do it, but everything around it and the stress of hundreds of pulls wasn’t worth it.