My opinion About Retail after playing Classic

Hello people. I will leave just one opinion here. The topic will be big so relax and enjoy.

I’m an old burning crusade player (ignore this alt) but i never had played classic.

I’m amazed.

After playing the classic for a few days, I realized one thing :
-The current WoW (retail) has REALLY lost the RPG element (duh).

This became very clear after i died to two scorpds.
It was even clearer after I got an item with spirit attribute - and that made a huge difference.

So, i was talking to some friends and I came to a simple conclusion.

WoW Retail has one serious problem - the leveling and the END GAME.

Why?

I will make a little comparison here. I played a game called ragnarok online for about 4 years - 2003-2007.
Why was his END GAME good?

Because everything the player did served a purpose.

During the week, it was common to see players farming items that would improve their performance, they would often try to drop better cards, better equipment, trying to refine equipment to higher and higher levels.

All for two reasons:
WoE and Raids.

WoE was a war where one clan and two allied clans defended a castle, so other clans tried to invade and take that castle.

Simple. But defending a castle and succeeding in it brings the player important things like:
-Some castles had exclusive dungeons;
-Others had unique quests;
-Others had exclusive items;

What I mean is, the player did his best to make his character stronger and stronger to the point of being very competitive for just one weekend event.

What does this have to do with current WoW?

EVERYTHING you do has no meaning. You can do a mythic raid on the next expansion if you are farming xmogs.

There is no reason to improve your skills, improve your talents, or make some different equipment set, or make some different rotation…you will only do it if you are doing M+, and you will ger bored soon.

As I said, at ragnarok everything was reserved at the weekend, where the player had an important event to go to that would guarantee a few more things.
Apart from that, improving character would guarantee an improvement in his performance in a raid. And that would happen only with his effort.

For the current game to improve, it would be necessary to look at the classic wow and think about bringing improvements in leveling AND at the end of the game.

Think about that :
After you play 2 years of WoW classic and see that there is no expansion coming…you know exactly how you will feel !

At the end of the game, we need bigger goals to continue the item grinds or the search for improvements.

-First, blizzard needs to bring the classic status, defensive status and attributes to the game.
-Then they need to bring back the talents, one talent per level, but the tallents need to be improved.
-Increase the meaning and difficulty of leveling … but always watching as it was in the classic.
-And finally she needs to think about the end game.

This was very clear in the legion. People want to improve the characters just to make that tower, which would bring that xmog they wanted so much.

Blizzard needs to do something in the end game that makes it really worthwhile for the player to keep improving the character.

They could learn from ragnarok and put a war on a castle (or some area) that would bring the winner some unique things. Or put rewards for the continued evolution of the player. That is the secret of the fun.

The tower mage was fun. But there’s a lot that blizzard needs to think about for the end game … and if she doesn’t do it soon, it’s like I said up there - After 2 years of classic without any updates no one will play it anymore.

The classic-players didn’t felt it because after two years burning crusade come out.

So…
There are plenty of ideas running here in the forum.

-Some have already talked about bringing the old garrison back and give over 100 points to the player’s choice in the world to put it on - imagine a garrisson in outland, or in the barrens…or in northrend. With a quest to migrate it after some farm.
-Others have already talked about a guild garrison.
-I am giving here the idea of ​​an equal WoE in ragnarok - and I am looking at the big problem of END GAME.

Now, reputation gring is really BORING. Flying in a small area is meaningless if you think of it as a reward.

Well, the aspects of the classic are important but blizzard needs to bring back what the classic had, it was very clear now, which are the elements of RPG, and the classic didn’t even have that many. As well Blizzard needs to think about the end game.

Just look at BFA -
Bad leveling - waaaaay different from wow classic - bad writing - bad player dificult - no meaning to keep playing, bad end game - mithyc plus don’t will last forever as a fun thing and one day the players will be done with the old xmog farm…

Blizzard - LEVELING DIFICULT AND END GAME ARE IMPORTANT THINGS !!!

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Ragnarok Online didn’t even have an endgame. Once you reached max level (if you ever did, it was a huge grind) you just farmed items and zeny to get better equipment through their gambling equipment upgrade system. I don’t get the comparison here at all.

WOE in Ragnarok just made grinding a little bit more efficient for the winners. Also I seriously doubt very many were able to participate, especially because once you fell behind the curve there was no catching up ever.

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Is there any chance, at all, that we could get a tl;dr down here?

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I disagree.

I am an example, I started because a friend invited me to play. He didn’t help me but I enjoyed the game, I got the the level cap, resected it, leveled it up again - I made some items and went to the wars and had a lot of fun.

The end game was focused on picking up items, refining them, dropping cards to different weapons, testing status with different equipment, and going to war.

What I mean is - there was a bigger purpose.

If the player didn’t like this higher purpose then he didn’t like the game itself.

The wow today don’t have a “higher purpose” <= that was what i tried to say.

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Have you reached Level Cap in classic?

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“Purpose” is a very subjective word. Just because you dislike BFA’s array of end game options, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

In fact, a lot of people would say BFA’s current patch has the greatest amount of end game options for players in the history of the game.

  • raids of varying difficulty
  • mythic plus
  • pvp
  • pet battles
  • transmit hunting

…just to name a few without getting into specifics.

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End-game in Classic is worthwhile when half the raid wasn’t 60; and the other half didn’t even have BiS items?

I can’t wait to see people raidlogging for this game when they realize they don’t need gear or consumables just to raid.

You complain about End-game in Retail, but it will become no different in Classic.

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What does this have to do with RPG? Classic sends you out under equipped and with almost no abilities until you hit the 20’s.

lol no it didn’t. If it was a weapon then it being a green weapon made the difference not spirit.

The rest of your post is just face palm worthy.

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Doesn’t matter. The points about how bad the leveling is now are still valid.

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The OP liked another game better.

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Can I get that on Kindle OP?

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If you think classic had good writing then I feel for you…
:roll_eyes:

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Honestly, I find retail better than Classic, because in Retail, we aren’t forced to group up to do stuff, especially for some quest. In Classic, it is either group up or don’t play.

Plus, I thought it was a bad with the grind of artifact levels BfA, but my god, I need to quit complaining about that. Classic, you got grinds worse than it is now. “Oh look new weapon, oh ####, everything has avoided and dodged me attacking with my new weapon.”

Yeah, sorry, but Classic, I found to be more worse than retail right now.

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They can 100% fix wow with just this. Think about it, we farm to get one piece of equipment, say a belt, we than farm to try and find an item that allows us to improve that belt to make it stronger, or farm multiple items to combine them into a stronger item and than refine our belt.

In essence it’s the same as farming M5 > M6 hoping that a new item will drop, but instead of RNG giving you something you don’t need, or an item warforging and just being better, we farm for items that we can than choose what slot we want to improve.

Right now my priest needs a new pair of pants and only a new pair of pants and once I get them I can put him on mythic raid farm along with with my rogue, that is no need to run any other content at base level because all my gear would be 430 or higher, which would allow me to start my third alt and go down the same path, already.

I would much rather stay on them for a bit longer, farm some more M+, get a few crappy items that I could combine into a good item and than refine my belt to be a bit stronger, and than go again. Like farming manapearls and increasing a benthic slot, but slower and more effective and able to be done with any content in the game.

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100% agree with your remark about retail WoW being RPG lite. Enjoying classic because it emphasises the role playing aspect and the social aspect. Retail is a better game but classic is a better MMORPG

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Why do you even play a multiplayer game then?

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I feel like Retail has the most options for organized content, but lacks the trivial RPG elements that bring the world together. Content is neatly organized and laid out for bursts of play, but lacks the passive feeling of being in the world. It truly became a theme park with absolutely nothing to do between attractions.

Partially because there have been so many expansions. Classic works because it’s a fresh start and it’s separate from retail. They cannot have new expansion reset all characters and have everyone start from level 1 (although I wouldn’t mind that actually). So every new expansion is basically about end game and leveling is neglected.

Some people actually like that. Some people like to just play a BG or two without worrying too much about anything else.

I think the least they can do to make Retail better is remove shards and bring back static server communities. That alone will make the world feel better, because things will matter more on a smaller scale. Reputation will matter. Suddenly that boar that you help kill is not just a boar anymore - you helped someone who might remember you.

Then they need to make solo content benefit the community somehow. For example, professions can be farmed solo or in a group to provide services for anyone on the realm, to make connections and network of bueyrs etc. Right now professions are largely neglected. Everything they give is not really game changing outside of minimaxing.

Also remove so much RNG. It works in Diablo, where one can re-run a chunk of content really fast and have infinite amount of tries, but in WoW things take time and preparation and it feels much better to be able to plan ahead and make decisions with a degree of confidence. Plus I think when gear is known, it is a bigger deal, than just stat sticks. Random item from the mythic chest is not as interesting as a targeted drop from a dungeon with unique stat distribution. I think it enhances RPG feel when everyone knows that there are “Shoulders of Great Power” which are BIS and everyone wants them, and getting them is very satisfactory.

TL;DR - Retail is neatly organized, but lacks “raw” RPG feel. Need to bring static communities back, professions and get rid of RNG.

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What is the “meaning” of leveling, or at least that you think it should have?

And how much more difficult do you think it should be, given that classic (classic is the neo-interpretation that was based on vanilla) has already been made harder than vanilla was?

I base this on discussions in general chat in leveling zones, as well as old wowhead comments that say quests I can’t solo were easily soloable in 2005.

How long do you think it should take to level to max? What should they put back in to make leveling interesting, since they have already gutted story, professions, and activities such as dungeons by forcing level scaling.

Multiplayer doesn’t mean you have to group up with others to quest and level.

That is honestly what Classic feels like. A lot of things that are in modern WoW, I am glad for, because it has given us more options on how we want to play, even if you think it is not the RPG feeling of playing a game.

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MMO means you can group up to quest and level.

Forced group questing means there will rarely if ever be new players, since nowadays most new players don’t bring their middle school class with them when they decide to start playing wow.

After this wave of new characters is over, new alts will be unable to quest in zones which require grouping for most quests, just as I was unable to complete Zul’drak some months ago while working on Loremaster on a leveling toon.

There was never more than a handful of players in the entire zone. I had to come back later to finish it after overleveling.

Just as I constantly heard “anybody want to group to do…?” requests in Silverpine Forest this week. Except there will be no one there to respond.

And that’s how it will be in Classic in just a few months.

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