Okay, so healer’s DPS filler spells do more than Oblit by a MASSIVE margin.
To those expecting KM r2 to carry Obliterate damage, how much mastery do you honestly think you need for that to be true? 50%? 100%?
At this point this isn’t even a prepatch tuning thing.
At this point you’re just conflating as many unrelated things as possible to complain. It’s not like those are two wildly different abilities, with different design goals. It’s not like there’s even more at play in spec balance than just Rank 2’s at level 60, like legendaries, and Soulbinds.
This is an insane fixation with something you truly don’t understand, and aren’t comparing in the actual context in which is matters. Play the beta, and provide feedback there. Comparing pre-patch is entirely pointless.
The big Obliterate crits will come with level 50+ perks - one to increase Obliterate damage by 20% and another to make KM Obliterates Frost damage (so it’ll ignore armor and scale with mastery). It was quite juicy on the Beta.
Oh wow another frost dk prepatch thread
My spriest VT at ilvl 86 doing more damage than my 126 2h FDK oblits, feels good mang.
Really though people that don’t see the issue here are trolling or stupid.
The issue is that you fail to realize you’re level 50 balanced around level 60 content with level 60 stats and level 60 legendries and level 60 covenants and level 60 ranks.
Casters are doing more damage on level 45 Training Dummies than melee are, or melee arent scaling like they should. Others were trying to say Shadow Word: Pain was doing more than Obliterate per tick which just isnt true when you attack a boss training dummy.
You’re right about Pain, my VT hits for 2.8k on a crit my pain is like 600 on a crit, same conditions. If I was ilvl 120+ with a certain set of azurite traits Pain could actually do more than Oblit on a per tick/cast ratio.
No I understand that just fine, I’m saying the nerf was too much. Context my dude. That’s why the OP and myself used the examples we did; because those other specs are tuned the exact same way. Also I’m pretty sure that these changes didn’t need to be applied to this particular part of pre patch because only the base class changes were applied. If the dev team wanted to tune Obliterate/Obliteration/Icecap they could have just targeted the soulbinds, conduits and legendary items like they did for most of the other specs, which is why those specs don’t feel broken in the transition.
Instead of using a sweeping hammer the team could have tested it on beta and left MOFTW/Oblit alone. They made a really bad decision based in bad data from what I understand and executed a horrid change as a result.
I mean pain is actually hitting for like 86 per tick on my shadow priest that is about ilvl 100. On a level 45 dummy a tick is about 650ish. Make sure when you test things its not on a level 45 target dummy and on a boss target dummy or it says 50.
So here are the numbers that I have on my ilvl 101 priest. Level 45 target dummy. Shadow Word: Pain (Dot) 675, Vampiric Touch 1500, Devouring Plague (Dot) 3592.
Boss level target dummy Shadow Word: Pain (Dot) 84, Vampiric Touch 188, Devouring Plague (Dot) 529.
My dk ilvl 101 45 target dummy. DW Obliterate (took a few tries to not get a half crit) MH - 238 OH - 116 Combined 354. 2h Obliterate 465. These are reduced by armor which when you get KM procs in Shadowlands its going to bypass that AND be increased by mastery, and that is without the 20% increase Obliterate rank 2. Is that damage worth it right now? Compared to non rime HB and non crit Frostscythe, yes it is. You can even get over 3k Frost Strike crits with Latent Chill and Killer Frost azerite traits, 5k whelp crits, 11k Frostwyrm crits and I think around 2k BoS tick crits. The only thing thats somewhat reliable is the Frost Strike damage if you stay under 3 runes, and use Icecap just to get into Pillar sooner (not to keep it up 100%). Ive been trying out a BUNCH of different things while some people seem to log on, equip a 2h, press obliterate, come to the forums and complain and then say they arent playing DK because of it.
You mean like World Quests, M+, and BG’s? Because that’s where I tested this. Also Obliterate. I get higher numbers on the 45 target for sure, both specs. The difference is consistent though. My priest has nearly 15% mastery, which increases damage done by my dots for that percentage for each dot present, while insanity is up this effect hits for the full effect, whatever that’s supposed to mean.
It’s odd to me 2h obliterate doing less damage than Clawing Shadows, without a wound as well. Same ilvl, same DK. Again, multiple scenarios same result. I tried it out in arena and was getting 1.5k crits on leather with no defensives going.
I can go out there and test it as well, but from what I can see it doesnt make a difference if I do it on a boss target dummy or a level 50 world quest mob. Ive found it to do the same when testing it out on my affliction warlock which is where I noticed this happening since corruption was ticking for like 1900 I think (might have been agony at 18 stacks cant remember right now).
Clawing Shadows also does shadow damage and is increased by mastery. Clawing Shadows with 1h is doing 413 damage for me (yes clawing shadows works with 1h) 2h is doing 441 (with higher mastery due to having a 2h mastery weapon).
I dont get higher damage on level 45 target dummies on any melee character I have tested it on. It looks like the only ones that actually scale are casters… why? I dont know.
Very interesting, I’d have thought that this wouldn’t be the case. Everything else about Clawing shadows I know, it scales off mastery that being said it’s odd to me that it would still do more damage than Obliterate which has a higher cost and typically has done better than 2x the damage of Scourge Strike. I’ve got 68% mast on my UDk; it would make more sense if that mastery narrowed the gap between the two (CS and Oblit) to Oblit being about 1/3rd stronger on a /cast basis, again without wounds.
No idea either, like I said though its not only dummies. It’s everywhere. If I hear in a week that it’s the result of unintended stat interactions like Unholy Magus double dipping off mastery fine, if that was the intended result it’s really really bad.
It worked with a 1h weapon (offhand is disabled) in BFA and you could transmog it to the 2h weapon. But you cant use some of the other abilities like Festering Strike with a 1h, dont know why you can with Clawing Shadows, I think Death Coil as well you can use with a 1h, didnt try apoc by applying wounds and swapping.
Huh, I wonder if thats what the ‘Soul Reaper works off main hand damage’ was about; could have been a thing where you’d swap to a dw setup where you buffed reaper with Fallen Crusader and Apoc. Not that it would be better, but I can see the dev team not wanting that sort of thing to be possible even if not optimal.
Just noticed something interesting, my Spriest has 535 Int at ilvl 90. My FDK has 537 Str at ilvl 127.
Cant swap to DW unless you swap your specialization from Frost, but your offhand is still disabled with unholy. You basically can only play the spec to the fullest with a 2h since you need wounds for certain things to work. Everything I have seen works with a 1h weapon except for
Festering Strike and Scourge Strike though I havent tested everything. Apoc works as long as there are wounds on the target, death coil works, Sudden Doom still procs though it seems to not proc as often. Cant use Unholy Assault with a 1h weapon, and you cant use Soul Reaper either.
Funny thing is I still got close to 1000dps with 1h unholy. Definitely not intended in the slighest, but I guess if you wanted to rp a woundless less pets unholy dk you can and still kill stuff out in the world, just have to use a 1h weapon lol.
The only thing I can think of as to why str might be lower is because abilities at least did use weapon dps in ability damage calculation. Might be a reason… but its a guess.