Talent system needs revamped. I said this in another thread:
I think they should do something similar to the Old Republic talent system. Keep the current talents the same, maybe add one more row with some of those main Covenant options. And then create something like Old Republic’s utility points. Along with their layout for what you get as you level.
Theirs looks like this:
I think ours should look similar, but on the left side, have our talent points we spend with the current talent system. The middle can be the path to better show what you get and when (instead of having to go search the spellbook to see what you get). The right hand side can be traits. Take all of the Azerite traits that were kind of minor, all of the glyphs that were kind of minor, the Covenant minor abilites and toss 'em all in there. Give points to choose those in between talent rows to spread out when you get major talents.
It’ll feel more rewarding, be more intuitive and more interactive with more choices and those minor things were already balanced in the game once. I think they need to spend the time to completely revamp the system like this.
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You didnt need a tier set to play your class. Your class felt complete without them. Please name me a tier set that was fundamentally required for you to perform your rotation.
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How did you get all that info from a picture of a cat shaking its head ? 
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Just made assumptions, the usual response!
I agree that would be more interesting and less class defining than say balance druid must choose night fae for convoke no questions asked to even compete with the other balance druids.
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They made replaying the current tier much more fun because you were chasing your set
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They weren’t even close to as impactful as the current borrowed power systems, but added nice flavour
The see-saw has tilted the other way now, some people will say you dont need your legendary, BiS covenant, BiS soulbinds, etc… they are liars. You need those to play a completed spec.
Your spec was already complete by the time you got your tier set
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I’m sure they put borrowed power in so they don’t have to keep adding new spells for each class. There’s only so many binds.
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I see your a man of great understanding and enlightened thought. Why doesn’t blizzard fire the diablo game devs who have ruined the feel of the classes with their convoluted design and hire some good hearted chaps who understand the concept of simplicity is best when it comes to class design.
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Borrowed power this tier feels much lighter than it did in BfA and Legion, where whole swaths of abilities were RNG from gear and AP advancement (BfA), and one’s progress on the artifact in Legion.
I’m usually more impacted by things that change largely expac to expac, such as GCD, aoe cap, changes to abilities in general, etc
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Heres an interesting idea. If you stop adding ridiculous soells like convoke into a classes design and make it so integral to the overall feel of a class people wont miss it when its inevitably removed. If we went back in time and rather than proceed down this class design rabbit hole the players and the devs would not have had to worry about fixing the holes left after the inevitable removal of that expansions borrowed power system. People cant miss what they never had and i think its time they stopped this whole pretense of adding in convoluted systems to finish classes they broke back in previous expansions.
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Your OP listed various borrowed power systems, but this seems to be all about Convoke.
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Threads on Mage Tower skins: “Am I a joke to you?”
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Its just the easiest example that comes to mind and the one i have most experiance with. They are all fundamental to how classes play. You try going into a mythic dungeon and try playing without your covenant ability or soulbinds or legendary and see how competative you are.
I mean, borrowed power is a good idea in principle, but blizzard sucks at it’s continued execution.
If they just kept adding new talents or new abilities every xpac, eventually there would be so much bloat, or so many redundant abilities people would just complain.
The problem is blizzard tosses each borrowed power system and creates an entirely new one from scratch. They should have taken the lessons learned from the legion artifact and carried them over into BFA, and then into SL, making changes and tweaks as necessary.
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You might be right, but those days are over.
you were just talking about borrowed power.
Though there certainly have been absolutely broken set bonuses throughout wow’s life; I don’t know if I could call them “required” unless we’re talking the same kind of required that comes to mind when you think of stat breakpoints and correct talents. You can play without enough haste and with the wrong talents; if you’re OK with sucking.
Hence the name “borrowed power” we have had this for the past 3 xpacs and I am waiting for the next xpac announcement to hear the new name for the soon to be 4th “AP” we will be endlessly grinding.
Embrace the borrowed power since its honestly not going anywhere.
I would say when it comes to my outlaw rogue in SL; none of the borrowed power changes or completes my spec. They all just boost the powers. Raiding legendary gives buffs while class abilities are active. Conduits passively buff current abilities. Covenant ability is just a dot that gives me a free opener.
In bfa and legion, sure, things were changed. Currently though it seems most things are just buffs to the existing class (which does affect balance, but doesn’t really change how I play)
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Yeah, right if you could hear it…It would have told you borrowed power systems will always be here.
Let me know when you can actually hear it.
The idea of getting rid of replacing borrowed power with cumulative power sounds great, except for one small thing: it leaves any new players to the game completely in the dust.
The whole point of every expansion having a system unique to itself, and self-contained, is that the mythical new player doesn’t have to go through every expansion just to catch up. Sure, they have to get to lvl 50 in BfA (now), but they don’t have to build their power up through all the prior versions of the game.
It’s why professions are compartmentalized the way they are now. Because nobody wants to spend all their time maxing their crafting skills in dead content just because they’re starting a new alt, or joined later than everyone else.
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