Are you really worried about DPS on Champion of the Light? Congratulations - you picked both the worst fight to compare mages on as well as the fight that means the absolute least in the entire raid. Mages show the absolute worst on that fight relative to the top performing classes but who really cares?
Look for the data on Mekka mythic - arcane is one of the best. Arcane mages are a top three class, beating out destro and shadow at the 95th percentile. Yes, mages can do ST very well.
I would suggest you take a peek at the analysis I did in the āMages are Trash DPSā thread so you can put what youāre saying into context.
edit Why does battle net post from the most random characters at times? This is not my main.
Mekka was the only other boss that wasnāt a joke. Stormwall felt way too easy for being the second to last boss, it just fell over with higher ilvl, some guilds around my level killed it in 1 day, while Mekka lasted 4+ days.
Hmm, spread cleave is one issue. As frost am fine when I can cleave but nothing in BoF is designed with that in mind. So I do agree raid design is hurting us.
However I believe it is deeper than thatā¦
Blizzard see mages as risk vs reward for standing still, however I donāt feel like mages are rewarded enough for standing still. This also goes back to raid design, so much forced movement.
It still feels like āworld of meleeā, and for first time ever I am considering just going FoTM. Itās really brought home when a BM hunter is doing 5k DPS more in a high movement/target swap fight and has zero understanding of why you canāt match their output.
There are easy tweaks to mages that would certainly help while not hurting long term. Blizzard just has not shown any interest in addressing mages.
It really is, I find it odd how many people ignore this.
This is a very real problem, Mages are one of the classes that were not really modernized compared to others.
For example in the past Warlocks would need to use lifetap for mana while all other DPS other than Arcane ignored mana, it was supposed to fit their theme of sacrificing for power but they were often weaker than the other DPS. Another example was Fury warriors taking extra damage while enraged yet just like Warlocks were never rewarded for it with really good damage.
Trust me itās not a āWorld of meleeā moment we have our advantages in some content but are also really lacking, I think the only melee doing better than a Mage this raid is the Rogue. If you do choose to go for a Melee to be powerful and have a ton of useful abilities Rogue is the only real choice right now.
Plenty of melee doing 4k+ more DPS than my mage. They basically get to sit on the boss and execute their rotation, majority of āmoveā is for ranged to handle. Put another way they still are doing rotation while moving for mechanics or with boss.
It goes back to my point of how Blizzard is still boxing mages into stand still for reward, while all melee never have that paradigm hoisted upon them. DoT classes donāt have this issue, nor do BM hunters. In fact I do believe mage is the only class where all 3 specs are treated so. The other ranged classes have a spec that can side step that paradigm. Maybe Balance druid is in our boat, not sure how they play.
BTW, I donāt think this is requires a massive rework to address. Since I play Frost here is what I thinkā¦
3rd charge of FoF
Proc protection on BF, should never need to cast more than 6 Frost bolts to get one. Which would also free up choice on Ebonbolt line.
The fights this tier were a joke minus mekka and obv jaina. Mekka was only really hard with all the stuff you have to pay attention to, but once you get that down itās not TOO bad.
Everything else just falls over and you donāt even need to execute a strat right to kill them. With ilvl where it is now you can just slam your face into them and win.
Really depends on the boss, if we look at the whole raid only two melee classes are doing better than Arcane, Rogue, and DH. On most fights, Mages are better than all melee other than Rogue but then you have something like King and Stormwall that are not good fights for mages and really bring them down this raid.
I do agree that melee, on most fights have an easy time with mechanics but there are also fights where a ranged toon can sit still and DPS while a melee needs to run around. The real advantage goes to the ranged classes that can DPS some while they move as we can see this raid.
I still donāt think itās a super great time for melee like some people seem to think, both ranged and Melee have their advantages and downsides.
No, according to logs Iāve seen and that have been referenced on the forums almost every melee is doing better than mage in BFDA. And then of course the first boss in Crucible is yet another affliction/shadow priest-friendly spread cleaveā¦
Iām curious though, where do you think melee have a disadvantage over casters in BFA besides sanguine? Legitimate question, not trolling.
You are ignorant if thatās what you think. I canāt post links but go on Warcraft logs and look up the top 95% on each of the raid bosses. Sadly I canāt get to the data pages idk if itās on my end or related to the website I will edit this later with the rankings when I can get back to the pages.
This whole raid is ranged dominated, some better than others of course with only a couple of fights where melee does better than most, I donāt think there is a single fight where a Melee character should be #1.
The main place Melee is doing better is high keys M+. In Raids and PvP ranged are really good right now.
Thatās aff/destro locks and spriests that are dominating (because of spread cleave) and to a lesser extent ele shaman, not mages which is what my comment specifically said. Iām looking at the 95th percentile right now (ttps://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21/#dataset=95 sorry the forum says I canāt actually post the real link, dunno why) and outlaw, assassination and havoc are all better, then arcane mage then ret and enchance then frost. Equal to frost are feral and fury then it goes to fire. Iād hardly call that dominating in any way shape or form. Again talking MAGES here. I was incorrect, itās not āalmost all,ā at least at 95%, but itās noticeable. And melee are still pvp monsters. Again, in which areas do you feel melee are at a disadvantage to casters? Enlighten my ignorance.
So like I said in my post there are only two Melee classes overall doing better than mages. If anything it proves we need to buff some of the Melee classes. Mages are not #1 but compared to All but the good two Melee classes they are doing great. This data s overall of course, on a fight by fight bases mages can be higher or lower.
You canāt post links there like me because we need to gain another level on the forums, I think we need to read the forums every single day for months or something.
Your comment was.
And with the data you just looked at we know itās not true. I was not saying mages alone are dominating but ranged in general itās a bad raid for most of us.
For one we are the second tier on most raid bosses compared to ranged this raid, only two classes have specs that do better than the wost ranged class.
Casters are very strong in PvP, Both Arena and Battlegrounds right now. Fire Mage, Ele, Spriest, Warlocks they are all doing great right now, not sure about B druids and most Druids I see in PvP are resto. Some Melee like Rogues are great like always and I think Monks is also doing really good atm.
Iām sure the meta will change in the coming weeks when people get the gear from the new raid so things could change, but they do get that crazy good trinket so we will see.
1v1 PvP (depending on the spec.) and M+ (most of the time, we can have our bad weeks too.) are the only places Melee have an advantage right now. Another advantage Melee have is that the skill gap to become decent with (Most) of them is easier than some ranged classes. But I do think for the more skilled playerās casters have more potential, Mages are a great example of this.
This is one of those the grass is greener on the other side of the hill situations.
A well played Rogue/DH/Enh/Warr can do really well on Stormwall, and likely beat any class that isnāt SPriest. Though thatās partially attributed to Stormwall being bugged and having a 0% chance to miss(similar to Garothi in Antorus) when attacking Laminaria.
Thatās kinda an exception that proves the rule though.
Its hilarious when people that donāt do the hardest content/ play at 95% mythic parse in raids, and probably wonāt the entire expansion, maybe clear a 10 week (usually itās the the ones that canāt get past a +9) try to cherry pick and link data off wcl to prove their point. Most melee if not all do a lot of damage and have the potential to completely outdps a lot of casters especially mages. The raid is tailored to spread cleave/dots and specs like frost shine in mythic+ because of roots/slows, double ib and the fact you can kite mobs around/into the tank for reaping and big pulls with relative ease. The meta would shift completely just from something simple like fury warriors receiving shockwave/rumbling earth.
I donāt think they beat a good Ele Shaman too but yeah Melee do really good on that fight, I noticed that even without logs. Is the miss chance the main reason why Melee do good there or is it because ranged characters swap targets and need to move a good amount that fight?
It could be the worst player in the game and you know what? That does not matter when you can easily research the real numbers. The only real problem are fights like the first one where people can fake their numbers by damaging the trash mobs.
Not to mention you are on an alt yourself.
Depends on the content, in this raid Opulence and Stormwall are the only real fights Melee beat most ranged characters. Jaina is pretty even for the top ranged and Melee. Every other fight has most melee falling behind with a few exceptions here and there such as Outlaw on cleave.
That said I think Melee damage is fine outside of Arms Warriors and DK which are pretty bad on most bosses this raid.
Yup. Iām glad someone is pointing this out.
Yup. I expect things to change greatly next season in M+. Blizzard seems to want a single target affix for +10 and want to make mini bosses more important rather than just AOE down the weaker trash. They should also be making things a tad harder for Melee but no clue how they will be doing that. Maybe I will finally get interested in M+ for once next season.
You can, just talent ice flows. But since I assume you mean permanently, nope, not gonna happen. The reason casters are not allowed to move and cast non-instants is it would be completely game-breaking in pvp.