My argument for adding High Elves to the Alliance

[Kreivos-area-52]

The Blackrocks used it at the time because the current one we have for Mag’har wasn’t available, but the black mottled skin/red eyes was clearly meant for Blackrocks.

Laughing Skull all used the pierced/mutilated version of the grey skin.

Burning Blade all use the brown skin I believe, except for Lantresor who uses the grey pierced skin.

[Kushiela-dawnbringer (Kushiela)]

I definitely would not argue against their inclusion beyond the basic point that new races are not content, but I do feel there is nothing stopping any character race from assuming the role. What I think the best solution would be to allow more appearance options for the existing elves and then people can claim whatever background that they want to role play.

[Broflake-illidan]

Do they have opposite cultures? Yes.

They don’t, and you have yet to provide a demonstration of this ability.

Are they enemies? Yes.

The only correct part of your statement.

Their development wasn’t undone just because they had their main problem fixed.

They just don’t need to Mana Vampire anymore.

Play the heritage armor quest.

Because Blood Elves would rather live with Humans and Dwarves right?

insert internet meme
Actually, the blood elves don’t mind allying with anyone, they simply wished to be left alone. In fact, Kael’thas was incredibly tolerant of Garithos despite his racist behavior and would have continued working with him had Garithos not actively tried to kill him.

So…yes…they would probably have allied with humans and dwarves again had the alliance not screwed them. Circumstance made them go to the Horde, not desire. We see this with alliance high elves such as Varessa.

You also have the case of Varessa actively allying with Sylvanas to get revenge on Garrosh and willing to become co-leader of the forsaken.

The large majority of high elves are scattered, and an unknown portion converted to being blood elves.

Because Blood Elves view feeding off of living things just to survive as horrible and disgusting right?

Yes, they did actually. In the starting questline it is openly stated by the quest giver that they find what they are doing wrong, but are doing so purely to survive.

The list goes on.

Continue, so far you only have half of one which is their dislike of half elves.

Because Blood Elves accept Half Elves right?

They do, but they don’t like them or want anything to do with them.

Because Blood Elves oppose the dangerous use of magic right?

Did we forget how the silver covenant literally handed over thunder magic to Jaina proudmoore for their own purposes? Or did we

“Only political” is a straight up lie easily dismissed.

“High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political”

Warcraft encyclopedia.
Your headcanon means nothing.

Because you misread the point again.

They add new things to races before they become playable. High Elves haven’t gotten this yet.

And it’s literally a major complaint how different the Nightborne are form the NPCs…

The only difference between dark iron dwarves and the PC version is that they have fiery beards and guess what the npc’s in bfa received this change as well.
You keep trying to argue “well once they become playable they’ll get changes.”. Let us assume this is true for th esake of YOUR argument. That doesn’t justify them becoming playable, that only says what MAY happen IF they were were playable.

You can’t justify the past with the future, it doesn’t work that way logically.

Sure. Keep saying that. lol

High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political- Warcraft encyclopedia.

Per blizzard, unless contradicted explicitly their statements remain canon. They have yet to explicitly state high elves are not the above.

And they used different magics. Thus why their eye/skin/hair colors are different.

That’s lore and development rather you agree with it or not.

We’ve been over this again, their eye color is the only difference between blood elves and high elves.
Their hair and skin color were not affected. Quit being dishonest. There is nothing in the lore to support your statement.

Again

High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political - warcraft encyclopedia

What have you countered exactly?

Saying “They are the same!” over and over isn’t a counter.

We’ve had this discussion so many times I would imagine you would remember those counterpoints. The fact I have to repeat them while you go “NU NUH!” is old and tiresome

Still childish no matter how you want to spin it.

You aren’t being insulted I am describing your behavior. Quit behaving as if you are a victim.

Man, you really don’t give any importance to the lore.

Dishonest again.

You haven’t done that at any point actually lol

Dishonest again

Okey but you will just dismiss it again.

Didn’t dismiss it

They have different Hair/Eye/Skin Colors do to Fel Corruption.

Hair/skin color were present long before they came into contact with fel. Varessa, Alleria, Sylvanas, and Lorthemar all came from the same generation of blood elves and the only difference that occurred when fel crystals were put into place was the changing of their glowing eyes.

Skin and hair were present prior to this and you see this using basic logic, and the fact that we have official sources showing these characters in the past.
It is also a fact that fel does not institute physiological changes unless they feed upon it at high levels and those that do are known as Fel elves who are an entirely different race.

They live in completely different locations.

Varessa and Alleria lived in silver moon their entire lives.
Both Vareesa and Alleria consider Quel’thalas their home as explicitly stated by the.
high elves repeatedly make pilgrimage to silver moon despite not needing to do so.

They integrate with other cultures and aren’t reclusive like Blood Elves.

They have done no such thing considering the lodges and other groups where high elves are the majority of the group and they ally with dwarves/humans to accomplish their goals. WQe have seen no actual changes.
THe only ones truly integrated are those who had unions with other races.

They do not seek power for powers sake like Blood Elves.

It has been stated by lorthemar this is due to trying to find ways to free their people from the sunwell. Let us forget this aspect.

They accept Hunters and Blood Elves look down on them.

even though they have the far striders and the far strider leader actually argued on behalf of Varessa during Cataclysm against Lor’themar.

Of course though, let’s focus on what some guard NPC’s say and ignore EVERYTHING else. Again, dishonest.

You’re the one trying to paint me as “Dishonest” because you don’t believe my motivations.

I consider you dishonest because you leave out parts of lore that contradict you.

I’m talking about lore/story/themes and why they are important but you say I don’t care about them because it fits your arguments.

I did not say you did not care about them, that is a definite lie right there.

But you speak for them?

I can.

But then try and call me out like you know better? Ridiculous.

It isn’t that I know better, it is that i am honest and not biased.

This is true but you’re trying to say they would somehow be hurt but dismiss that a lot of Blood Elf fans are also High Elf fans?

I like how you try and lambast me then agree with me the next moment you misunderstood. Many people can like many things, it does not mean we should consider this in a discussion. That is an emotionalk appeal.

That isn’t what I said at all.

You’re trying to make a case that Blood Elf fans would be hurt. I pointed out that there are contradictions to that because being a Blood Elf fan and a High Elf fan are not exclusive things and that people can like both groups for their differences.

Perceived differences are different from actual differences Drede. They have much more in common than they do differences and again

High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political- Warcraft encyclopedia.

[Broflake-illidan]

Oh poor thing. His elf is not a delicate snowflake. Unique and special

It is why you rolled a blood elf right? Cause…you know…if high elves and blood elves weren’t at all similar you wouldn’t play one.
Your mocking of me doesn’t bother me. I’ve worked with criminals and children.

[Casmir-barthilas]

The only real change I always hear is Blue Eyes and Tattoos on our models. Never heard anyone say make them look like Night Elves

The Night Elf version Talendrion made is actually one of the most popular requests to help differentiate High Elves. Lol. It’s why i added it in the OP.

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

They don’t, and you have yet to provide a demonstration of this ability.

I literally just listed them for you.

All you do is say I’m lying or pretend they don’t count lol

Actually, the blood elves don’t mind allying with anyone,

I said Live With.

they simply wished to be left alone.

This proving my point on them being isolationist.

Yes, they did actually. In the starting questline it is openly stated by the quest giver that they find what they are doing wrong, but are doing so purely to survive.

Good point but they still found it an acceptable means of survival.

They do, but they don’t like them or want anything to do with them.

That’s not accepting them… That’s the opposite.

Did we forget how the silver covenant literally handed over thunder magic to Jaina proudmoore for their own purposes? Or did we

The one that was never used?

“High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political”

Warcraft encyclopedia.
Your headcanon means nothing.

Except the lore has been developed since then.

We can see the physical differences and they’ve expanded the different groups.

Wrath came out in 2008 and expanded on the Dalaran High Elves/Silver Covenant.

Also in 2008 we got the Warcraft Legends Manga expanding on the Highvale.

Chronicles came out and smoothed out a lot of lore bumps.

The lore didn’t stagnate.

The only difference between dark iron dwarves and the PC version is that they have fiery beards and guess what the npc’s in bfa received this change as well .

They didn’t have fiery beards or tattoos until Blizzard needed to make them more unique.

Kul Tiras got new models. Nightborne got new models.

All allied races got new models.

You keep trying to argue “well once they become playable they’ll get changes.”. Let us assume this is true for th esake of YOUR argument. That doesn’t justify them becoming playable, that only says what MAY happen IF they were were playable.

Because it throws the entire “They look the same!” in the trash.

If the become Allied Races they will look different. End of story.

We’ve been over this again, their eye color is the only difference between blood elves and high elves.
Their hair and skin color were not affected. Quit being dishonest. There is nothing in the lore to support your statement.

Go to the model viewer lol

We’ve had this discussion so many times I would imagine you would remember those counterpoints. The fact I have to repeat them while you go “NU NUH!” is old and tiresome

Then you should quit and let us work on our request.

You aren’t being insulted I am describing your behavior. Quit behaving as if you are a victim.

You literally are saying I’m not telling the truth.

Dishonest again.

Dishonest again

Didn’t dismiss it

Case in point! Any time you’re cornered are caught in a bad assumption you say I’m lying.

It really makes this entire conversation easy to deal with.

Hair/skin color were present long before they came into contact with fel.

Check the model Viewer.

Eyes are also important given the lore behind them.

It has been stated by lorthemar this is due to trying to find ways to free their people from the sunwell. Let us forget this aspect.

And most see power as their birthright.

even though they have the far striders and the far strider leader actually argued on behalf of Varessa during Cataclysm against Lor’themar .

Of course though, let’s focus on what some guard NPC’s say and ignore EVERYTHING else.

I didn’t say they didn’t have them and I said they look down on them.

We can still see them bickering in Isle of Thunder.

Again, dishonest.

Mhmm.

I consider you dishonest because you leave out parts of lore that contradict you.

Sure I do.

I did not say you did not care about them, that is a definite lie right there.

You literally said all I care about is aesthetics. Caught ya on that one.

I can.

Then I can speak for them too.

Also I am an actual Blood Elf fan. PLOT TWIST!

It isn’t that I know better, it is that i am honest and not biased.

You are anything but not biased.

Perceived differences are different from actual differences Drede.

Yes.

They have much more in common than they do differences and again

Oh, we are getting somewhere. Now you are admitting there are differences.

I will leave with that small victory and go enjoy my weekend.

Have fun continuing this!

[Cenaris-wyrmrest-accord]

You. I like you.

[Starlagosa-dentarg (Starlagosa)]

‘This is a highly polarizing issue, Development is definitely aware of it and has addressed it several times both on the forums and in livestreamed Q&A’s. While ‘Every Voice Matters’ is one of our Core Values, and we value people voicing their opinions, that doesn’t mean that we have to agree with them. It is quite literally impossible to please everyone. Also, forums in general tend to be somewhat of an echochamber, whether its our own forums, reddit and other social media, WoWhead, MMOChampion etc. It’s a cognitive bias to presume that because there’s 10, 400, or 50,000 posts saying that they all want something, within those posts there’s dissent on how to implement the change they all claim to want, as well as an equal or greater number of people saying they don’t want something.’

For those who claim they’re not on the discord, you’re missing out on pertinent information related to this forum debate/discussion.

And for those who think this is good news I’m just going to put the Master’s critique of this:
'What I find of interest is how his comments shed a light on something he is qualified to answer, how Blizzard views the pro High Elf campaign itself. It’s a little peak behind the corporate mask of pretending all feedback is good feedback and we are listening.
It sounds to me as if this CM is saying the pro High Elf community made it’s case and Blizzard has offered answers, clearly referring to the two answers Ion delivered via livestream in the past two years in this topic.
He says that no matter how great the number of posts, that forums themselves are echo chambers. He notes the huge opposition to the suggestion, as well as the divisions within the high elf community as to what is acceptable. He also notes Blizzard is not obligated to agree with you despite your passion/

In summary, the response cannot be seen as encouraging to pro High Elfers.’

[Ruterot-barthilas]

For those who claim they’re not on the discord, you’re missing out on pertinent information related to this forum debate/discussion.

The only discord I’m on is a professional minesweeper channel. Am I supposed to be on a Discord?

He says that no matter how great the number of posts, that forums themselves are echo chambers. He notes the huge opposition to the suggestion, as well as the divisions within the high elf community as to what is acceptable. He also notes Blizzard is not obligated to agree with you despite your passion/

In summary, the response cannot be seen as encouraging to pro High Elfers.’

Wait, does this mean we won? Can I finally retire and get married to an average looking woman and live peacefully in the countryside until they return in the sequel?

[Oreahna-moon-guard]

Taking a single race and making it playable on both sides with the only difference being politics is no different than the panderan’s difference between the horde and alliance version. It was fine for ther pandas because they were designed that way but you are undermining established race placement to suit only some players. You would be taking a known Horde race and making it neutral only to accommodate Alliance players.

Aww you aren’t capable of understand a 3 point scheme. How sad

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

Someone with too much spare time from that server should find out.

I’m not sure and to be honest, I don’t care much about who is who

If you’re talking about mechagnomes, I don’t mind them being added. My issue is that no one asked for it while there are more people asking for high elves.

That’s not the reason I had to defend them, it was because people that supports High elves have a tendency of painting the role of the gnomes in the Alliance as insignificant while overinflating the role of High elves when this couldn’t be further from the truth.

[Oreahna-moon-guard]

Snip.

Starly, hunny. The opposition is also an echo chamber, love

Let’s not kettle calling the pot black

[Mythliel-stormrage]

What opposition? It’s like three people.

[Ruterot-barthilas]

people that supports High elves have a tendency of paint the role of the gnomes in the Alliance as insignificant

They do play a small role.

[Midare-area-52 (Midare)]

Badum-tish

Still, even I notice them… me, a gnome hater.

[Oreahna-moon-guard]

What opposition? It’s like three people.

Whelp, it’s more if you count the pop up trolls thinking they are funny or smart

[Callistus-wyrmrest-accord]

Don’t think it was a CM. But maybe.

I think parsing that text without knowing what the original ticket wrote is pretty pointless honestly.

What exactly is that GM replying too?

Not that there aren’t going to be people against adding High Elves in the moderation crew. Just kind of the nature of the discussion.

[Ruterot-barthilas]

Still, even I notice them… me, a gnome hater.

I mean, let’s be real. Without the gnomes and dwarves to make all their kit the Alliance would be absolutely cattled.

Without high elves they’d…

I dunno, have less successful earring merchants?

[Mythliel-stormrage]

Oh yeah I wasn’t counting the trolls. I know a total of three people here who have laid out reasonable counterarguments. Lydon is one of them.

[Keski-kirin-tor]

Blizz needs to add Alliance HE’s… though probably wait till the next expac. What happened to the old megathread?