I, too, absolutely hate it when discussions evolve organically!
Y’know what. Fair. I was probably a bit too fighty about that post, long day and I’m posting before bed, so I probably wasn’t very kind there. Sorry about that.
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There is actually no confirmation of it. There was a line that could allude to it that Thrall says but nothing other than that. Thrall basically says he lost touch with the elements after his duel with Garrosh. But this could be because he broke orc rules or because of self doubt and believing himself not worthy because of what Garrosh said to him. Personally I lean towards the latter because it makes no sense the elements would actually care what Thrall did in an alternate universe in an alternate world with cultural rules for a battle to a guy who went around having the elements enslaved anyway.
Didn’t they though?
Don’t get me wrong, I understand players disliking the narratives they are forced into based upon what faction they are in, but you got to look at both sides history. On one side started making a road of bones on demon juice because Gul’dan said it would be cool and the other are multipal nations doing anything and everything to not let them be next.
If you look at how the factions started really, BfA is not that much of a stretch as a lot think (though I still don’t like it). That being SAID though…I would greatly like to see next expac NOT be BfA 2 or MoP 3…
What else is new? The Horde does something bad, but it’s not the Horde that’s bad. It’s because they picked a leader that did bad things and didn’t represent the true Horde, even though, historically, the Horde has more history of violent aggression and slaughter than whatever the Horde likes to cultivate itself being.
I personally didn’t mind the story’s conclusion. It wasn’t a complete retread of MoP, and the war wasn’t put on hold because a bigger threat came along, it was resolved, at least.
As for cathartic? I had no expectations of that Horde mass murders people, Alliance gives them a slap on the wrist and tells them not to do it again. Alliance justice for the Horde is on par with Megaman and Doctor Wily, let’s be honest.
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I was always under the impression that Thralls loss of power was less “the elements are mad at me” and more him feeling himself unworthy.
Ah, the Mjolnir crisis. Seems about right.
Wasn’t it a complete retread? The only difference I can really see is that they just walked up to the edge of another Siege of Orgrimmar, then hit fast-forward through the raid to the part where Garrosh runs away to eventually return with his even more evil army.
I’m still a little baffled at how 8.2 was a literal copy paste of 5.2. Like all the way down to the exact same characters “putting aside their hatreds”
“It won’t be MoP 2.”
It was MoP 2.
“Teldarssil will surprise you!”
Everything we guessed would happen happened.
Almost as if they lie sometimes.
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That’s a fair point. I should probably qualify my statement a little.
When I saw how wishy washy the faction war was after Lordaeron, and seeing how Sylvanas was behaving, it seemed pretty clear to me that Sylvanas was going to be painted as the antithesis to the Horde, and that the rest of the Horde isn’t like that, blah, blah…
But as a result, looking at Cata and MoP, I expected there to be another bloody battle, with the Alliance and Horde banding together to kill Sylvanas…then N’Zoth is teased and we have some post raid content that leads into Old God xpac.
I enjoyed the idea of Saurfang being a martyr for a cause that no one really believed in at the start of BFA and few believed in even up to the final moments of the war. History was certainly rhyming with previous expansions and it’s a shame because, as an Alliance fan, it cheapens the hell out of MoP’s SOO ending, but…
Well, it may be that I had really low standards for the faction war’s conclusion, but it was at least better than I had expected–even if I expected absolutely nothing of value. I can understand if people want to grade it a D (though I think that’s a little harsh), but I was expecting an F, so…eh.
Although I will say this. I’m in no hurry for another faction war. It’s not necessarily bad for RP, but Blizzard tiptoes its way so much through the war that it doesn’t have the same oomph as monster of the week battles. If people want to compare to classic Warcraft era…there were generally clear bad guys in the story arcs. Or at least clear narrative.
You know. I get real sick of the “hurr durr Horde players signed up to be genocidal bad guys.”
No. No we freaking didn’t. We signed up, if we played orcs, to play a race that was led by a Warchief leading us away from that bloody history (that was caused by the Burning Legion, by the way) at worst. The whole POINT of being an orc is to fight against and overcome that history. Do worgen get shat on for all the people they murdered before overcoming their curse? No. Is that a smaller scale, yes; is the morality much different? No.
And if we signed up as a troll, or a Tauren, or a Forsaken, we signed up to play a race who could not survive on its own–who was being held down, exiled, or otherwise not being allowed by circumstances to thrive.
That was the point of the Horde. Misfits and monsters, banding together to scrape a living out of a world that rejected them.
Sign on to Classic–we all can–run to Orgrimmar, and read Thrall’s greeting to you. THAT’S the Horde. Don’t tell me I “signed up to be the bad guy hah hah.” Screw that. Its insulting and disrespectful.
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If it’s any consolation, we’re just as sick as the Horde insisting they do no wrong and shouldn’t suffer the consequences.
But yes, I heard the talk being Liadrin and…Sigryn was it?–I forget how you spell the guy’s name–on the Vindicaar. It’s a good concept and one I like. The reality in the lore hasn’t panned out that way.
Though for my part, I’m not speaking with the intent of saying anyone signed on for anything. Honestly I’m just hoping they do something with this whole ending the cycle thing. As weak as people feel BFA’s faction war was, it’ll be even worse if they go with this putting aside differences and forgiveness thing…only to lead to another war 4-5 in lore years from now.
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Oh yeah–I didn’t mean YOU. This is more a rant of exhaustion borne out of Reddit than anyone here, and its the only place I can vent without my inbox filling with trolls (and not the good taz’dingo kind.)
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Tell that to Blizzard.
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Oh I do man.
I do.
I’d also point out, though, that if you’re still shocked at being relegated to the bad guy after Cataclysm, MoP, WoD and Legion, I don’t know what to tell you. You made a deal with Blizzard to get control of the story in exchange for being the villains. Maybe you didn’t sign up for it, but that’s what it is now, you can’t really be surprised anymore.
When the words “faction war” were muttered, every Alliance main let out a sigh. We knew exactly how it was going to go: the Alliance would suffer, the Horde would have control of the story, we’d get a fleeting victory, then we’d all make up and there’d be no consequences.
Both Alliance players and Horde players know Blizzard is terrible, but only the Horde players are routinely surprised by this.
I didn’t make a deal with a Blizzard about anything.
Except that whole Nightborne thing. That was me.
You didn’t sign up for it, but that’s the way it is and the way it’s always going to be.
Yeah, it’s pretty bad. I do the main zone stories to quest/establish the rep grind on both Sefs and level via islands and pvp for everyone else. Boralus is the better city, too.