MW is actually outshining every healer

Slow pacing is pretty much every single game required to go into dampening by default.

But it’s also more complex for me to just completely summarize in this way, because pacing can actually be very quick yet you can still have a dampening match. An example of fast pacing yet still a dampening game would be from the summer finals at the end of legion. Super Frogs went up against XRB to the moon. The best game was on Tol’Viron, and went onto dampening. The games had two defensive oriented teams, yet they both had the potential to kill one anotber at any moment. The games went into dampening, but only because of fantastic plays especially by Blizo and Chunli. Chunli had clutch crackling jade lightnings, using the knockback to peel Blizo off of his team mates. At the same time Blizo also did a fantastic job preventing his team from dying and making sure to have as high uptime as possible. If anyone on either side made a mistake in these games, it would have ended almost immediately after. That is fast pacing, while still reaching dampening.

The current meta is quite the opposite though. Even if you fight a team that is absolutely inferior to yours, you will still have the game reach dampening. No matter the mistakes on the other side or good set ups on yours, you just will not have kill pressure. This is slow pacing. Even if a kill happens quickly, say from a Boomkins Incarn - that doesn’t necessarily mean the pacing was fast. When games will by default only end in dampening it is slow.

I recall recently playing with my team mates Kaska and Syfoxy. We faced against an FPS, that was around 2500 MMR. Since we were on our alts, we were about that same rating. From the first minute of the game, I absolutely knew we won. We were constantly in the winning position, the enemy was always behind, and there was no threat of us losing. The enemy was probably gladiatorish experience, compared to us as Multi R1s with average tournament success. It took 12 minutes for the game to end, even though I knew we had won based on how the game started out. We always had momentum, I knew the team wasn’t as experienced and it was only a matter of time before we won.

Pacing like this isn’t all too common in the current patch. There’s no reason to play any burst oriented comp, I would say it should always be some double melee comp that’s tanky and has potential to get kills in dampening, or some defensive wizard composition. Either way, games will be long and there’s not much you can do about that.

I think good pacing is when damage is high enough and scary enough that you can win when someone makes a mistake, but games can still be long and back and forth because of the option to outplay those kill windows. When pacing is slow, you will always struggle even when your opponents make those defensive mistakes, taking excitement out of the match. I personally think if I’m fighting a team I know is less experienced than myself, and I know the game is already win, it should end in a minute. It’s good for us because we can quickly get out of a bracket where we fight that team and move onto the next game, and good for our opponent to be put out of their misery quickly. A slow paced meta can give the losing team false hope only to be dissappointed when they lose. It also prevents that team from quickly escaping their MMR bracket, opening up for another miserable defeat.

Hopefully that explains it enough :slight_smile:

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finna prove you wrong

yeah yeah lmao yikers says the warrior yikers says the dk yikers says the rogue yikers says the mage yikers says anything. Welcome to bfa idiot

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Hpal destroys us.

They buffed it via cocoon. The cocoon buff outshines the nerf we got to EM.

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Unholy DKs are insane right now and can solo basically any healer with ease. Thats a pretty garbage argument to make. If we based healer rankings based on how long they can survive vs an unholy DK, youd have to revert every disc nerf and then buff shields by 50%.

Finna prove me wrong finna

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They chopped shaman and MW is basically the next one in line.

MW’s utility kit is pretty much unrivaled(among the other healers). Ring of Peace, Grapple Weapon, Leg Sweep, and a sap. Add to this a nearly never ending mobility and its hard to feel like they aren’t overpowered.

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the only time mw really loses is against burst setups and when they use crane as a dps cd. other than that its not them losing its their team messing up. the only way a healer can match mw output is if no one sits them or kicks them. mw output is completely bonkers and maps like blades edge make them gods. but i wouldnt call them completely op just top of the pack as far as healing output.

just play rdruid with casters and win in damp everytime.

??? hex, windshear, earthbind, earthgrab, earthern wall totem, capacitor, grounding, tremor, spirit link. im not even listing the new stuff like healing rain/chain heal removing ccs. monks do not have the largest toolkits

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can’t prove you wrong OP

this may be the dumbest post ive ever read on these forums im impressed

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I would say Hpaladins are better than MW right now

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I think ima have to disagree with you here. Although I do see where you are coming from. At the higher ends of the game sure you want to be able to capitalize on mistakes to boom win the game right then and there. Id also agree that it can be really frustrating when people are doing ignorant things yet still staying the game/ not losing.

But here is where I think our viewpoints differ, the pacing was much to fast in 8.0, even after everyone started to get geared and it was more like ‘tournament realms’.

Right now wow arenas need more players. Its not fun when a low rated healer or DPS make a mistake a boom the game ends right there. It happens a few times (and it will to new players) boom they’re done and out. I think the best pacing is when it allows for a few mistakes to be made, while still having the potential to win the game.

Even me who has some solid experience and plays with some solid dps, the game felt like an absolute chore to play in 8.0 because the game was extremely punishing.

But then again i am much more a fan of the dampener meta. So the pacing at the moment feels fine to me.

The argument is kinda the same for the pre 8.1 meta, why play a dampener when you could just win in less than 3 min as rmx?

yea man i agree and all its just that it cant come from you mr bfa melee

The issue here is that dampening comps can still exist in a fast paced meta. But when the meta is specifically extremely slow, only dampening comps can exist. Comps that want quick games or comps that have a medium pace actually require specific pacing to be viable. When the game is slowed down artificially it only means that dampening comps can exist, which is problematic.

Some good example of seasons that are looked upon as really great arena seasons with fast pacing still had dampening comps exist. I.e, S8 (End of WoTLK) or S15 (end of MoP). Dampening comps existed, melee caster comps existed, and cleaves existed. You could play pretty much anything and that was a good thing. 8.0 actually had a good amount of diversity, the only issue was the only dampening comps you could play were spriest rsham x, boomkin rsham x, or dh rsham x. Warlock dampening/rot comps were non existent, same with eles, same with UH DKs. Those specs needed help. Those specs could have still been made viable and helped out, while also keeping every other type of comp still competitive.

What you’re saying about forgiveness in mistakes is probably a lack of understanding of what I mean. You can make a couple mistakes in fast metas against equally skilled opponents, especially if you and your team work around to adjusting to a mistake that is made. This is not what I am talking about however. I don’t think it serves any value for a team to have a 10+ minute game against a team that is dramatically worse than your own. There is more than one mistake happening in this scenario, and mistakes by your enemy are much higher than you would think. A very large chain of multiple mistakes with no recovery in sight on those mistakes does not help the recovery process at all imo. No matter who you are you will make mistakes, but those are much less frequent the higher you climb on the ladder, which means that if you’re ever in a situation that you fight a team vastly inferior to yours skill wise the amount of mistakes they are committing should result in a loss and if it doesn’t that means that games will never end if teams are actually close in skill. Realize that this has issues in every single mmr bracket. If games last into dampening with large gaps in skill, then what is going to happen if teams are equally skilled?

As for your last part, you could play the dampening comps I suggested, DH rsham x, spriest rsham x, and boomy rsham x. You outlast the rogue mages aggression and you win the game. That’s how dampening comps win in fast paced metas, they work as goal keepers. They avoid getting killed and they’re able to win the game. Their opponent has an opportunity to win if they get clean set ups, and they have an opportunity to win by breaking them up. Clear win conditions on both sides. In dampening metas, the defensive team comp does not have to break up any of those set ups. They sit there and passively win. When the dampening comps are too weak then the reverse can happen where the dampeners stop every set up and still lose, but that is usually a case of those specific dampening classes being weak imo, which actually can be adjusted vs the entire game needing it’s pacing slowed down.

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They dont really outshine other healers. When melee is on the up monks would be a better option. The recent Dk and warrior buff is the only reason monks would be the go to. If they got a nerf monks would be on the down.

Yeah MW, and Hpal are on top right now. But literally every other heal spec has had its chance to be the best (except holy priest) this season. Give us our little few weeks of being op before you nerf us, ty. Also, I don’t think ANYONE asked for short cocoon, would happily take that nerf rn.