Moved over to FF14

No, hasn’t been since like 8.1

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Bingo. Requiring a mythic dungeon isn’t the same as requiring normal dungeons. You can call me when FF14 requires us to complete a savage raid to finish the story.

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It’s all a matter of approach.

As it has been noted, progression through the MSQ in FFXIV is established as mandatory from the get-go. You can’t even start exploring past a couple of small sections of starting city until you do the first handful of quests.

When you get to your first dungeon at level 15, it is apart of the MSQ. While you can continue leveling at point, unless you do that dungeon, you’re stuck with next to nothing to do. Complete that dungeon, the MSQ continues, and you get more to do.

Before that can happen, WoW is already whisking you away to the next zone; it’s not uncommon for players to reach max level and to have never done a dungeon, they don’t have to. Furthermore, most leveling dungeons are just crushed by overgeared and overpowered alts wearing full sets of heirlooms; players have no opportunity to learn the bare-bones basics of group content in WoW, and haven’t for nearly a decade now (sounds like the issues started in Cata).

FFXIV sets the rules early, and sticks to them.
Do the MSQ and all required group content. Veterans get thrown in with the newbies, and given incentives (newbie bonuses) to stick around; completing the content helps them too, so there’s an incentive to help out even just a little.

WoW rushes you to the endgame while giving you absolutely no practical experience… and promptly abandons you and leaves you at the mercy of the vicious community who expects everyone to already be a 10+ year veteran and an expert at optimization. As such, all queuable content in WoW is a complete and utter joke because there game does nothing to help learning players.

Your definition of “required” does not match FFXIV’s definition.

To put things into perspective, imagine WoW requiring you to do the following content in Legion before touching ANY BfA content (you can’t even set foot in Zul’dazar or Boralus until doing these):

  • Do the Assault on the Broken Shore scenario.
  • Get Loremaster of the Broken Isles (all zones)
  • Complete your Order Hall Campaign
  • Do all 5-man dungeons from Legion (any difficulty)
  • Clear all bosses in the Emerald Nightmare (any difficulty)
  • Clear all the bosses in the Trial of Valor (any difficulty)
  • Do X’era’s entire storyline about getting Illidan’s soul back
  • Do the Insurrection storyline in Suramar
  • Clear all the bosses in Nighthold (any difficulty)
  • Do the whole Broken Shore questline
  • Get your Class mount from the class-specific questline after completing the Broken Shore questline
  • Clear all bosses in the Tomb of Sargeras (any difficulty)
  • Complete the entirety of the Argus questline
  • Clear all of Antorus, the Burning Throne (any difficulty)
  • Do the little questline to overload your artifact in Silithus
  • Do the “War of Thorns” questline in Darkshore (which would still be in-game)
  • Do the “Battle for the Undercity” scenario (still there, but skippable on alts).

And maybe to be fair, you only have to do this all once per account.

THAT is how FFXIV works.

But it is expected, and the game is structured in a way that veteran players routinely help out newbies in lower level content in their daily random dungeons.

This is where the difficulty curve of the games comes into play.

All dungeons in FFXIV have only one difficulty. Those which are labeled “hard” are actually a return trip to the same location with an entirely different set of enemies, bosses, and often a new layout/route.

… but by the time you reach the end of Stormblood, they’re a good chunk harder than most (baseline) Mythic dungeons in WoW. The Mist Dragon would tear through groups in WoW like hot knife through butter.

However, it IS queuable content… and it’s not a problem. The difficulty curve of FFXIV means they’re willing to throw surprisingly tough content at the casual playerbase.

And somehow the FFXIV community tends to be more sociable in queued content than the WoW community in everything other than runs with guilds and friends.

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I don’t care about FFXIV’s definition.

I care about Webster’s definition.

When it comes to definitions, Webster trumps FFXIV. Every day.

It’s not an insult to say you are ignorant of how another game operates. You live in your little WoW bubble without realizing there are other offerings out there that have so much more available in terms of meaningful content.

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There’s no point. No matter how many facts you use, he’s always right. In his mind, at least.

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Indeed, no point wasting time trying to reason with hard-headed fools.
… though it can be tempting it may be sometimes.

Alas, that moment when you’re CERTAIN you’ve got them… they just seem to not get it and persist on the same tired old argument.

As they say…

Never argue with fools.
They bring you down to their level and win through experience.

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It’s fun to argue though, so I often let it go on longer than it should lol.

They’re not. And yes, I did attempt my hand at Ultimates. I stand by my statement. They’re easy as dirt. Their mechanics are on par with that of LFR, maybe normal mode. You owe me money.

No, no it’s not. If you can’t name why, then it probably sucks.

World of Warcraft might fall into this same pitfall, but FF14 does it WAY more; ripping you straight from the action and forcing you to collect rocks and play hide and go seek with children for no reason.

World Quests =/= Normal quests.

Sylvanas has always been straight to the point and outright genocidal. That’s her personality. If you played Warcraft 3, her campaign has her murdering anything between her and her goal. That’s Sylvanas. She hasn’t changed much.

Yes, he wanted to unmake everything because he thought his corruption was a far better alternative to Void corruption. That’s kinda deep when you really read why he did it. He had to take matters into his own hands to ‘save’ the universe lest it fall to the darkest type of corruption. That makes sense. That’s good story telling. He was evil, but he has his reason for being evil. In FF14, if they tried to make a character like Sargeras, they would just have him be evil to be evil without any solid reasoning.

While the Lich King might also look pure evil from the outside, he kinda was also like Sargeras and that he thought his corruption was better than the Legion’s corruption and wanted to create an unstoppable army of undeath to defeat the Legion itself and perhaps even challenge the void since death is outside the control of the Void (*).

Arthas didn’t instantly fuse with the Lich King either. He was slowly corrupted after taking Frostmourne. If this were FF14, Arthas would instantly became super evil and started killing everything for no reason.

Arthas gave everything for his kingdom, but ended up destroying it in his vengeful wrath.

Firstly, there is still a long GCD and just because there are non-GCD abilities doesn’t mean there isn’t a GCD. It’s STILL there, it’s STILL annoying, and it’s STILL long. You can combo abilities that are off the GCD with abilities onthe GCD, but it still means it’s there. That’s the point I was trying to make that went right over head. And you’d have you be brain dead to mess up a FF14 rotation. I played bard/samurai and it was press this button, now this button, use this CD, then use this button, and repeat. It was the single most brain dead rotation ever.

I know what I’m talking about. I played the game. I listened to the dialog and watched the cutscenes but slowly got bored after the fourth time of them telling me this person was evil and we had to stop him without really telling me why they were evil or why they were doing this. “uugh, im evil becuz stronk n uhh me no liek u. and uhhh, me wan b king. uhh. me bad guy.”

It was really not that hard.

It’s interesting reading what Ff14 requires and thinking “that would set the wow forums on fire.” I really think if blizzard didn’t listen to the Rastlins of wow over the years the game would be in a far better place.

The casualbad playerbase has had the devs ears for way too long and this is where it has lead us. A whiny entitled playerbase that stifled what the devs could do out of fear of upsetting people who couldn’t play their way out of a paper bag.

I mean imagine the wow forums if the main storyline required dungeons. You’d get pages of “muh anxieties!” And nerf demands.

Then you would know what drive the antagonists of the game. It doesn’t sound like you do, though.

You thinking it’s not that hard doesn’t make it a watered down LFR.

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The GCD I can’t really argue much about with you. FF14 does attempt to at least make more animations if you use different spells. However, it’s a fair enough opinion if you prefer WoW’s 1.5s GCD.

For Bard and Samurai, you’d be surprised how many players I noticed not keep up the Iajutsu Higanbana 60s DoT on enemies (Samurai). I agree Bard is an easier job class as DPS, but it still requires putting up that Straight Shot crit buff, 2 DoTs on enemies and refreshing the DoTs with Iron Jaw. Even on AoE, a few DoTs are put up since crit DoT ticks are needed for their 30s song buffs to work.

For the villains, you haven’t even mentioned them at all. You even admitted to skipping cut scenes and you are criticizing the villains? Can you explain to us what you thought of the Empire, the Primals, the dragon Nidhogg, as well as the Warriors of Darkness during Heavensward? These are the main ones at least.

For the difficulty, you still didn’t get the $99 bucks if all you can say is the encounter is not hard and comparable to LFR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDg44MVJLrw

This link is Square’s 16 bit parody video of the Primal Titan. It’s not sequentially how you see it for real, but it still shows what most of the mechanics are with a bonus one from Extreme. If you get hit with the line fires, you get knocked back and possibly fall down 200 - 400 yalms down.

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FFxiv is not inviting to new players.

The entire main story quest and dungeons are locked behind gates.

Unless you get a leading guild, a free comp. that has a nice GM, you’re SoL.

Que can take an hour for a MSQ that is mandatory for progression in the game.

Not once in that game did the game give me REAL direction, it was a cluster.

WoW isn’t perfect, but it’s the best by a long shot

Even as dps I have NEVER had a queue take more then 15-20 minutes, were you playing at like 3 am?

They’re fixing that issue anyway, with the Trust system and NPC heroes for MSQ dungeons.

But I don’t even know what you’re on about with the game not giving you direction. It tells you exactly which quests do what. It TELLS you which quests are MSQ, which quest are Side Quests, which quests unlock things, etc.

You literally can’t get lost because it ALWAYS tells you what to do next.

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Played it for a few months. I may go back but I hated how the dungeons and raids are obligatory to proceed the main story. I like group content but I need a little bit more choice. Somedays I just wanna quest. I do wish that WoW had a mentor system though.

Eh, the mentor system in FF is not very good for most servers, most of the mentors are EXTREMELY bad at the game. It’s far too easy to get into.

The MSQ is locked behind… dungeons. If anything I prefer that to WoW, where you could go the entire game without touching a single dungeon or raid. This way all of the dungeons and trials are all cohesive along with the story, so they add to it rather than just being “there.”

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Dungeons that “mentors” do not run, resulting in hour long queue. i notice you didnt dispute that point

Why do I have a funny feeling that you’re referring to the two 8-man dungeons at level 50?

Those are fairly notorious for queue times (… as DPS), but usually around 30 minutes during most hours. They are pretty unusual, and to be honest, a bit unique even within the game itself. The main issue is the sheer length (and volume) of the cutscenes therein, which are also unskippable so that first-time players don’t miss out on the story. However, with the hearty heaping of tomestones and XP, people still run them fairly regularly.

One slight nuissance, now fixed, was there was an 8-man trial fight not long before those two dungeons which was inexplicably outside the Trial Roulette… and that was fixed AGES ago.

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