Idem. And of course, disc now is much more active throughout the fights than in Shadowlands. It used to be 1 min SS or 1:30 min Boon/Shadowfiend. Almost no miniramps there cause nor penance or schism did a thing. Now we play around 45s ramps with 1 mini ramp in between (that is being giga buffed with Radiance and Sins buffs coming) that matters. Downside is our heal now is less bursty than before but we have a lot of tools to play with.
I was already excited for Disc next week in keys because of the Dark Disc buffs but after seeing Flash Heal being buffed by 25%, Sins going to 40% and particularly the PW:R buff by 100%, Iâm hype level 9000.
PW:R is going to be a ~400% sp heal on the whole party every 15 seconds which is going to go a LONG way to making Discâs AoE burst throughput competitive and that is what itâs lacking imo.
Going into each Hyrja storm with over 1,000% spell power healing for each party member in 3 casts is going to be pretty damn strong I think and will make those sorts of damage patterns manageable.
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By making them equivalent, which they arenât which was my point but weâll address that later, you are saying disc is justified as it does not need to have itâs healing style changed, because it is comparable to other raid healing CDs. This is completely false because it does not take into account what this style creates, the design issues it creates, and how it becomes a balancing nightmare. All of those issues I just stated? Bubble disc was removed for the same reasons.
Iâm questioning if you are being honest or just not actually compared the two. For reference in my gear if I take all renew talents, my renew is ticking for 4.5k with Divine Word active and a full 7 stack PoM heal is 10k, for a grant total of 32,525 with one tick of PoM, and 42,525 if you get two ticks of PoM, would actually be lower because Salv PoMs at max get 8% bonus out of Divine Service as oppose to the 28% of a full stack PoM. Add another 10k for the initial heal of Salvation and you are at 52,525. Serenity non-crit is hitting 60k and 116k on crit without any buffs, IE no talents taken to buff it no cheesing Divine Hymn, nothing.
This isnât to put down Salvation as itâs a great CD, but the numbers I just put up there is a fully talented Renew+PoM build to give it the max number I could and itâs still around 10k short of a Serenity on a non-crit, and isnât factoring how much higher Serenity would scale with Echo of Light compared to Salvation either.
So stop me if you have heard this one before. A raid healing spec that brings a âunique toolâ that is balanced around having weak healing outside of said special tool. Oh yeah thatâs bubble disc who brings nothing but bubbles and outside of that really isnât that useful. We just replaced bubble spam with atonement burst, which isnât healthy. Iâm really hoping the upcoming changes helps shift our power away from the burst healing and more to the consistent and constant and allows Blizzard to see just how much healthier such a design would be in the longer term.
Iâm not overestimating how much healing Disc is doing outside of those windows. I even said the spec had an issue where even with how much insane burst healing it puts out itâs counter balanced by having such weak through-put outside of that in the post you where quotingâŚ
âŚhere to be exact.
Considering the actual healing of Disc during itâs window is so much higher than Salvation, so much so the rest of the spec has to be neutered to justify it, would seem to be an argument much more in my favor than you would like to believe.
Have you still not picked up that my argument isnât âAtonement bad, evangelism bad, disc badâ and more âthis spec design is poorly thought-out causing them to bottle neck itâs potential and limit itâs abilities in a variety of places specifically to account for how strong it is during a narrow window of time.â
Iâm not talking about homogenizing, Iâm talking about designing the spec around proven and consistent healing class design principles known to promote healthy playstyles and less balancing headaches. Disc style of DPS to healing via atonement stays, what changes is the numbers and how quickly they explode onto the screen so that when healing with atonement disc doesnât blow everyone out of the water for 6 seconds and then become a joke for 1 minute 24 seconds, otherwise known as the vast majority of content.
No it wasnât. Bubbles were removed because absorbs were getting abused time and time again. It wasnât just us either, Pallies lost a huge amount of absorb healing.
Atonement isnât absorb healing.
This is almost exactly what I said. But you threw in serenity critting, and just left out that divine word makes renew crit 30% more often. Weâre also looking at it in a vacuum and ignoring what all of it actually gives you, considering popping salv currently just grants you apotheosis as well.
But you donât even need your own in-game numbers. You can just use SP amounts. Salv will average ~500 sp healing on the raid under divine word with pom talents (and no renew talents), where salving the whole raid would be 665. Also Iâm not applying aura modifiers to this (and probably should in a comparison to Disc - because it would make both numbers for Holy much higher).
But I think youâre still missing the point, here, because these numbers donât matter. Again, weâre talking about a reworked evangelism. In this case, exact numbers donât actually matter, because a reworked evangelism can say âapply atonement to all allies within x yards for 6 seconds. For 6 seconds your atonement transfer from spells is reduced 20%â Granted, this would likely make it not worth taking versus lenience, unironically, but the option is there.
This is just disingenuous and you know it. Doing a lot of healing at specific phases, doing a lot of healing with one ability, and doing absorb healing overall are completely different things.
It is really not. In 6 seconds, you can cast full talented Lightâs wrath â HD Penance â Mindblast/mindgames. If we were to, say, schism and scov before hitting the button with power of the dark side and HD ready -
Damage:
Lightâs Wrath - 534.625% SP (614.8% with TE)
Mind Blast - 103% SP
Mindgames - 171% SP
POTDS HD Dark Reprimand - 434% SP. (499.1% with TE)
So your cap is 1,477.6% SP in that window. Thatâs 591% SP healing optimally - which is pretty close to Salvâs average 500% (exactly what I said) but over 4 globals instead of 1 (exactly what I said). It might be close to a middle ground of both numbers we gave earlier. But again, if weâre to apply aura modifiers to salv (I really donât want to do this because screw renew) salv is likely averaging closer to like 610%?
I am well aware of numbers here. But again, the numbers donât matter in a potentially reworked evang where itâs easy to tune the numbers themselves during the window.
This is the same thing as homogenization. All of FFXIVâs healers have very different kits, but playing them all feels exactly the same, since you have tools for the exact same scenarios across the board.
DPS in WoW has the âI burst in short windows and do nothing outside themâ types along with the more consistent DPS types. The short window burst is generally much, much better in fights where bosses have vulnerability windows they can take advantage of, or really rough phases that need to be pushed.
The same can absolutely apply to healers. There can be a paradigm that does very strong burst healing over a very short period that can happen more often. I think helping playstyles like that to succeed is better than reworking all healers into the 2 min raid CD model. You disagree, and thatâs fine. But I donât think you can claim that Iâm wrong, or youâre correct in that scenario. Just as I canât claim youâre incorrect for wanting a more traditional healing profile.
In any case, this is very much just derailing the thread. Iâd rather just talk about disc buffs than have an argument about how atonement doesnât work in raid without a completely separate CD.
If you think about it, holy word: sanctify does less healing than discâs PW:R and you get it off every 15 seconds. Pretty nuts, the disc buffs are huge.
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The absorb and damage mitigation meta early last expansion caused a lot of issues for healer balance because preventing damage > throughput healing. That made 3 out of 6 healers not desirable for mythic raiding guilds.
This is why starting in SOFO and Vault almost every raid boss fight is a rot aura.
I hopped on PTR because I wanted to do some damage tests. PTR doesnât have the same 10% sins buff or PWR/FH buffs yet, but reverie is working again finally.
I think this is gonna be the build I run:
Possible swap of Shield Discipline â Solace.
I was able to maintain ~32k DPS with it on the cleave dummies while making sure to always keep one healing dummy atoned. That makes me think that in a real dungeon scenario once weâve got an extra 10% damage, I can probably maintain a good 30k DPS on most mob packs. As far as healing I was doing ~15k HPS on a single target, which seems pretty nice.
On fully single target dummy, was seeing a pretty big damage increase too. Could maintain a solid ~20k DPS and the HPS was still more than enough for a boss fight. Obviously the DPS will take a hit if we have to hold abilities for AoE mechanics, but itâs still very good and puts us at about evoker/druid damage as well.
Shadow Covenant is able to empower all 4/5 (depending on target health/SW:D) hits of Inescapable torment, as well as 2 harsh discipline penances in the 15s window, and itâs VERY EASY to refresh bender with void summoner before Scov is back up. Along with that, having void summoner gives you a lot of mana back, and with mind blast being cheap as hell now, mana hardly even seems like a problem anymore for 5man.
Sanguine teachings is also very good.
Honestly looks like Disc is back on the menu.
I donât rly care about the dmg, I just want to know how much hps a disc priest could put out? Like for example a hyrja storm in HoV⌠with the new buffs, how is it looking like for AoE healing?
PW:R looks so strong now, I would say itâs even better than Holy Word: Sanctify
Can anyone confirm the scaling per atonement target in sins of the many?
That is the exact same build that I was thinking on testing myself⌠I have one more draft ready that I think could be worth some consideration too, itâs basically the same build but grabbing Twilight Equilibrium (and probably solace in this build)âŚ
That would come at the price of dropping lenience and Train of Tought but I think might be worth some consideration⌠Here it is:
It is by about 40%, but also applies atonement.
We have plenty of AoE HPS. Radiance is a 400% SP heal, and we have 2 of them on a 15s recharge with bright pupil.
We also have shadow covenant (another 165%), and HD Dark Reprimand, which is 168% SP to each atoned target, and we can get it off twice in each Scov window.
Weâre easily the best AoE healing spec in the game for short burst healing in dungeon. The only thing we MIGHT struggle with is if thereâs AoE damage thatâs lasting >30 seconds.
Yup, this was a second build I was considering. But I do like having Train of thought, and LW feels like a waste of a button in dungeons, especially after patch considering you get CDR out of Smite/Penance/Solace/MB.
Also itâs just less to keep on the mind when youâre in Shadow covenant and trying to maximize inescapable torment. But if you do like playing TE more power to you. It is definitely more damage if you can play to it.
Nope. Sins of the many change isnât on the PTR yet, so canât know for sure.
Have you shelved your holy spec for now? I remember you playing hpriest for awhile because you were disappointed with the state disc was in.
I play both of them pretty actively.
I mostly play holy exclusively during grievous weeks though.
That said, Iâll probably mostly be playing Disc come the patch. Itâs quite possible some of these buffs get reverted or partially reverted come the tuesday after though. I think the radiance change is in the most danger of all of them.
Yeah LW is mostly due to pathing to save a point in the last section and be able to grab Twilight Equilibrium⌠I also donât like it too much in dungeonsâŚ
I see it as possibly a higher ceiling build with more damage and healing potential perhaps but also harder to optimize since it gives us yet another thing to manage with TE⌠The idea of Solace there is that it helps us manage it a little bit when needing to move and stuffâŚ
I will probably test both and see how they feel.
Does the extra 20% transfer rate on shadow make PoTW not the play? Does the dot spread really outweigh the extra healing from just SW:P?
Also with the buff on flash heal and renew along with the reduction in value of the left side of the tree vs the right side, do we even care about PW:S except for rapture?
PTW is radiant not shadow so it doesnt affect it.
and yes we care about pws because absorbs are better then heals. In keys i almost never flash heal unless its a SoL proc and i only renew on the move when i cant pws. Dark disc heals is all burst so not a lot of ST spamming going on.
Aegis wont be the play in keys or raid really unless you overheal but a lot with tons of healers, but pws stil has its place
I worded it pretty poorly but I was ultimately curious if PoTW should even be taken since we get the extra 20% transfer rate on SW:P
mostly ptw in keys yes, because spread etc and shadow cov is for burst healing more then dps. For raids apparently, we will be using scov, which makes swp more interesting but the shorter duration of swp v ptw kinda makes it a personal choice thing
sorry i was think scov not the 20% transfer. well then it comes down to globals. a pack of say 8 adds. do you want to waste globals on swp for that? what dps will you lose when using those gobals when you could be building HD stacks etc and getting more spread of ptw
I all I want is to tuesday to arrive TODAY. Ow my ANXIETY
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Im running with that disc spec tho im unsure if im going to run with TE over train of thought. With solace in the mix, you can get some nice big burst from shadow HD if using TE proc with shadow cov and dark HD.