I’m on my way out myself. Mop is just mid. Cata was my favorite and mop just has way to much mandatory quests just to play alts. This time though the bugs and glitches are unforgivable. It’s just not fun.
Mop was great, truly a testament to how mid the devs are now. They managed to make a great expansion be entirely mid while charging an $80 box fee.
Thank god there’s no legal recourse for customers about minimum viable products.
oh well, Artemishowl & co seem to be departing, and good riddance.
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I am speaking from my own personal experience, but I actually think it died due to being extremely “dated”.
What I mean is, classic servers from Vanilla to WotLK had the nostalgia factor and a truley “different” experience from retail to bring players in.
Cata and MoP, though great for their moment in time, are basically extremely simple, easy, dumbed down versions of retail.
I enjoyed my time in MoP season 1, getting CE early on in every 25m raid, but it was super evident that if you were at all accustomed to the difficulty of Retail’s last few expansions, MoP raiding (esp with heroic being close to retail’s LFR level) wasn’t going to scratch any sort of itch long term.
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Your entire forum presence is propped up by GDKP. Ban evading gold seller spamming the forums cause GDKP’s cut into your profits.
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The numbers are probably MUCH farther apart than that. They get their number from warcraftlogs and PVP leaderboards which means that it’s only taking max level characters who are raiding or doing arenas into account. When you consider that:
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Many people in TBC are still leveling or not raiding yet.
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Most MoP players have many raiding alts while I would venture to say that less than 1% of TBC are raiding on more than one character at this point.
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We’re no strangers to love, You know the rules and so do I, A full commitment’s what I’m thinking of, You wouldn’t get this from any other guy, I just wanna tell you how I’m feeling, Gotta make you understand. Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down, Never gonna run around and desert you, Never gonna make you cry, Never gonna say goodbye, Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.
Considering this I would divide the MoP number by 3 or 4 and add about another 20-30% to the TBC number for the casual/time-limited players that may not be raiding yet. None of this is supported by any hard facts. Just guesses based on experience.
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Says the guy that advocates for loot systems that destroy game modes / servers for regular players 
Enjoy mop brother
SR doing more damage to the playerbase faster than GDKP ever did. You’ll see 
If you were enjoying TBC you wouldn’t be replying to me in 4 different threads. Really makes you look desperate. Especially so when everyone knows you’re a ban evader and you pay for arena carries.
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10k raiders
That’s cause everything after wrath was trash
Mop heroic similar to LFR? Lmao so you 1 shot everything?
10M heroic is on par with mid difficulty retail heroics.
Incorrect. Wrath is pretty overrated in fact
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Posting disprovable stats makes you look even more ignorant btw.
We need region locks.
30k raiders divided by gdkp alts
It’s over
whats funny is that dev interview with scottejaye they said they were all in on mop. what a lie. they spent a week all in on mop and then stopped.
Not a single MoP heroic fight is on the level of a retail heroic fight since Shadowlands, IMO.
MoP heroic fights range in comparable difficulty from retail LFR at their most simplest, to their hardest being somewhere in the realm of a bit harder retail normal, but not at the level of retail heroic.
Again, this is only my opinion having done the content. Its really hard to judge TBH, simply because there is a comical lack of mechanics in MoP at its hardest, compared to even the “easiest” raids in retail. Its tough to separate “bosses hit harder”, even though they are braindead to handle.
Idk what you’re judging as complex but you can mess up mechanics badly in retail, even through some heroics, and it doesn’t matter.
At least in mop they may be “simplier” but the damage is there and requires good output and raid CD coordination, like retail mythic does. Because you can actually wipe.
No one wipes in retail normal and lfr lol
If you take an AOTC guild from retail, and stick them inside MoP heroic (which is technically supposed to be on the level of retail mythic for its time), they are going to steamroll it with only a few wipes while they learn the 1-2 mechanics per boss.
Now, if you take an AOTC, or even a CE guild from MoP (assuming thats the hardest raiding they have ever done) and stick them into retail, they are going to be wiping a lot in normal, and prob a few times in LFR also. Thats what im saying.
Not only are the raids comically less mechanically demanding, the rotations per class, even after the latest round of retail pruning, are insanely simple in MoP as well by comparison. All of that combined adds to it, again, IMO.
Yes but retail classes are a lot stronger with more tools. There is a lot more mobility to handle the complexity.
Retail also gears you out a lot faster so prog isn’t made trivial by gear. Try heroic ToT clear week 1 and see how face roll it is. Its way different than now when everyone is geared up. In retail you never really outgear mythic until its faceroll like you can in classic. Just different designs.
It takes longer to kill things without the gear, for sure, the but fights are objectively way simpler and easier to handle.
Describing Retail classes as “stronger and more tools” as a response to my rotation complexity comment is an interesting way to describe Enh shaman’s 13 ability DPS rotation lol (and thats after the latest round of ability pruning).
Anyway, this was just my opinion, but what I said above about MoP players would struggle on the easy retail content if MoP was all they knew, yet retail players would find the hardest MoP content trivial (all things gear being equal), is something I believe to my core lol
All that said, the fact that its so trivial and there is no option to do anything more complex (as opposed to retail with mythic raiding and m+ dungeons), there is no long term “hook” for a modern player, and likely drove players away (myself being an example of this very thing).
As an AOTC+ level player (I don’t find mythic fights difficult, it largely comes down to just waiting for the rest of the raid to understand the new mechanics while I’m optimizing my cd windows but I’ve never played in a guild capable of CE so, grain of salt) this is really true. Coming down to MoP is exactly that, coming down. The most similar fight at this point to anything in retail’s more difficult content in terms of tuning etc, is heroic Lei Shen. There are guilds/gdkp’s that farm this raid every week in a single 2-3 hour session that STILL will wipe 3-4 times on Lei Shen because you just cannot out gear the fight. You can’t afford to miss a soak somewhere. Even missing mass spell reflects is a quick ticket to a “go agane”.
Heroic on retail hasn’t really been like this (in my experience) for at least the past few tiers. But mythic definitely has those kinds of mechanics where when someone goofs it’s just wipe and go again because it’s unrecoverable.