Yes10/30/2018 03:15 PMPosted by TelthiaThought of pulling my monk off the dusty shelf... There's so much negative feedback on WW monk though.. Are they really THAT bad?
mvp guy try playing other classes please. monk is so garbage in PVP its not even funny. the only good thing about it being utter garbage in pvp is that we have to get every little advantage we can possibly get out of our kit. we research and research just to get that extra dmg, the perfect talents and setup.
but even though monk is known for utility its actually horrible compared to other classes. and our damage is horrible on top of that. our disable is almost melee range, while other classes have ranged slows. our stun is 2.5 seconds, other classes have MORE stuns that are longer and are on shorter cooldown, on top of that some classes have RANGED stuns. anyone can run from touch of death, anyone can run from touch of karma. yeah sure its basically an immume but the problem is that a massive amount of our dmg is put into that "immume". so we HAVE to make use of it. anyone with an addon gets a notification on their screen that the ww monk used karma, so yeah its useless. our DMG needs to be almost doubled or our touch of death needs to be a oneshot again from 40-50% health with stacking TOD azerite traits. we are literally useless in pvp. yeah sure theres one guy in the top 50 that has everything perfectly setup, but for him to play at that level is insane, your enemy needs to be a massively worse than you for you to win as WW monk in arena. on other classes its much much easier to win in arena's.
we need MORE stuns(bring back fist of fury stun back), longer stuns, and something like blessing of freedom to get out of the massive amount of snares, stuns that mages and rogues have. we just get KITED nonstop. and if we reach the enemy with many rolls/torpedos/serpent kicks/teleports we deal !@#$ damage, that a disc priest can outheal while doing MORE damage than us. anyone that uses all of their cooldowns will always win a ww monk in 1v1. in 3v3 we're jsut an annoyning little pest that saps every minute and flies aroudn the stage while doing garbage damage
but even though monk is known for utility its actually horrible compared to other classes. and our damage is horrible on top of that. our disable is almost melee range, while other classes have ranged slows. our stun is 2.5 seconds, other classes have MORE stuns that are longer and are on shorter cooldown, on top of that some classes have RANGED stuns. anyone can run from touch of death, anyone can run from touch of karma. yeah sure its basically an immume but the problem is that a massive amount of our dmg is put into that "immume". so we HAVE to make use of it. anyone with an addon gets a notification on their screen that the ww monk used karma, so yeah its useless. our DMG needs to be almost doubled or our touch of death needs to be a oneshot again from 40-50% health with stacking TOD azerite traits. we are literally useless in pvp. yeah sure theres one guy in the top 50 that has everything perfectly setup, but for him to play at that level is insane, your enemy needs to be a massively worse than you for you to win as WW monk in arena. on other classes its much much easier to win in arena's.
we need MORE stuns(bring back fist of fury stun back), longer stuns, and something like blessing of freedom to get out of the massive amount of snares, stuns that mages and rogues have. we just get KITED nonstop. and if we reach the enemy with many rolls/torpedos/serpent kicks/teleports we deal !@#$ damage, that a disc priest can outheal while doing MORE damage than us. anyone that uses all of their cooldowns will always win a ww monk in 1v1. in 3v3 we're jsut an annoyning little pest that saps every minute and flies aroudn the stage while doing garbage damage
in pve we're completely fine though, but people just underestimate us
10/30/2018 04:28 PMPosted by Dungoncatchin pve we're completely fine though, but people just underestimate us
'fine' damage wise. 'fine' fun wise, no. The dps has bee nerfed constantly since prepatch in a steady fall amongst a revolving azerite circus. ToD and karma being a huge chunk of dps isn't fun. That gameplay is getting nerfed at least. Though it will be yet another net dps loss. The global cooldown changes are horrid for the fluidity of the spec. WW pve is just as stupidly unfun as it is in pvp.
10/30/2018 01:01 PMPosted by OmnipotentjcIt’s not an outlier problem it’s a ww problem that we just have poor design in bfa.
The design is alright for the most part in my opinion but there are places that it could DEFINITELY do better off paper and in the actual gameplay.
The talent tier with sweep / gk / rop is an issue, like you've mentioned. There was a bunch of feedback about how toxic it was to play around that in PvE, how terrible the choices felt on that row because you had to choose between damage or QoL, and some other things players said at the time but I can't recall them all atm.
Now the absorb value is getting changed to a heal but the ability itself is also getting reduced in regards to how much damage it could have potentially done. I feel like either change was enough on it's own but now the potential for karma damage is poof, it is gone just like that, for the rest of the expansion basically and while it wasn't very relevant in PvP it still was important for the impact that ToK had as a deterrent.
Since it is possible to break ToK sometimes you'll see people damaging through the absorb if the ww has no other defensive options, trinkets, or escapes, and they can sustain the damage. Then when [they] broke karma absorb there wasn't much punishment since the damage karma dealt in PvP was reduced from the start. The 100% absorb was a better deterrent but wasn't always effective if they called the bluff basically and this happened way more frequently when you had 2-3+ people hitting you. That is what I perceive the issue with Karma to be. Karma is not weak as a defensive cd but its become a problem defensively in situations that boiled down to "Can we do enough damage to ignore this?" and the effect of the defensive did not punish that choice enough. So yes I agree that "outliers are not the problem" when it comes to ToK.
Since nobody has really mentioned ToK until now, I will say that I believe that if the heal was baseline it would be "fixed" as a defensive. There should be punishment for dpsing into cds and you should also be rewarded for keeping pressure on the monk/healer until the end of karma but I don't want to get off topic.
Nerfs are !@#$. I get that. It's terrible for anyone involved. As Dilly pointed out yesterday if Windwalker did more damage then you'll run into situations where people defensively ignore you, less. If you run at a mage right now they'll cast poly in your face because they don't need to root, db, whatever unless you've got cds. If you did more damage they'd need to prioritise the defensive play. Just look at Trill&Mes running at the Mage the other day playing Unholy/DH, that's completely accurate to say a buff would help. That is one side of the coin though. Damage is not the only way to generate momentum offensively and giving me a random blanket buff to some abilities is not going to magically fix everything and make windwalker great again. Damage would be nice but it won't fix design.
The problem with outliers is that it makes it harder for everyone else to be brought up. Rogues as an example don't just need a blanket nerf that wouldn't really fix anything. Fire Mage is the same way since ignite is dispellable although GP is trash to play against right now. They are fine at a baseline level and there is counterplay to everything more or less. Azerite traits in general just need a nerf in PvP. They are what causes this disparity between specs and like I said before - there is no reason why we should be buffing baseline abilities to be competitive with azerite trait buffed abilities. That is a bad bad change to make in my opinion. Trait stacking with buffs & damage effects or 3 of the same trait stacking is not the direction I want to see the devs take PvP in and buffing classes to match the output of those systems is basically confirming that design goal.
10/30/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Dungoncatchmvp guy try playing other classes please. monk is so garbage in PVP its not even funny. the only good thing about it being utter garbage in pvp is that we have to get every little advantage we can possibly get out of our kit. we research and research just to get that extra dmg, the perfect talents and setup.
but even though monk is known for utility its actually horrible compared to other classes. and our damage is horrible on top of that. our disable is almost melee range, while other classes have ranged slows. our stun is 2.5 seconds, other classes have MORE stuns that are longer and are on shorter cooldown, on top of that some classes have RANGED stuns. anyone can run from touch of death, anyone can run from touch of karma. yeah sure its basically an immume but the problem is that a massive amount of our dmg is put into that "immume". so we HAVE to make use of it. anyone with an addon gets a notification on their screen that the ww monk used karma, so yeah its useless. our DMG needs to be almost doubled or our touch of death needs to be a oneshot again from 40-50% health with stacking TOD azerite traits. we are literally useless in pvp. yeah sure theres one guy in the top 50 that has everything perfectly setup, but for him to play at that level is insane, your enemy needs to be a massively worse than you for you to win as WW monk in arena. on other classes its much much easier to win in arena's.
we need MORE stuns(bring back fist of fury stun back), longer stuns, and something like blessing of freedom to get out of the massive amount of snares, stuns that mages and rogues have. we just get KITED nonstop. and if we reach the enemy with many rolls/torpedos/serpent kicks/teleports we deal !@#$ damage, that a disc priest can outheal while doing MORE damage than us. anyone that uses all of their cooldowns will always win a ww monk in 1v1. in 3v3 we're jsut an annoyning little pest that saps every minute and flies aroudn the stage while doing garbage damage
I play other classes (rogue, priest, warrior, druid, shaman, and soon to be paladin) though typically just to collect elite sets and then I stop. My shaman is the only one I'm interested in as far as doing more than collecting Tmog. Not sure why this matters though.
Everything you've said I'm in agreement with other than the ToD trait stacking and only a fraction of those issues are resolved with more damage.
10/30/2018 09:19 PMPosted by Whitenøise10/30/2018 04:28 PMPosted by Dungoncatchin pve we're completely fine though, but people just underestimate us
'fine' damage wise. 'fine' fun wise, no. The dps has bee nerfed constantly since prepatch in a steady fall amongst a revolving azerite circus. ToD and karma being a huge chunk of dps isn't fun. That gameplay is getting nerfed at least. Though it will be yet another net dps loss. The global cooldown changes are horrid for the fluidity of the spec. WW pve is just as stupidly unfun as it is in pvp.
What would make it fun for you at this point? It almost feels like we're given a clean slate here. The xuen traits seem experimental. Wondering what's on peoples minds. Was reading this earlier but I don't really have anything to add so I +1 it.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769628472?page=1Intentional or not I've been starting to really enjoy that Storm, Earth, and Fire will proc things in addition to our own strikes.
sigh
why in thw world WOULD THEY NERF FOF
when the damage was subpar to begin with
does this current crew just love to upset their client base?
why in thw world WOULD THEY NERF FOF
when the damage was subpar to begin with
does this current crew just love to upset their client base?
<span class="truncated">...</span>
'fine' damage wise. 'fine' fun wise, no. The dps has bee nerfed constantly since prepatch in a steady fall amongst a revolving azerite circus. ToD and karma being a huge chunk of dps isn't fun. That gameplay is getting nerfed at least. Though it will be yet another net dps loss. The global cooldown changes are horrid for the fluidity of the spec. WW pve is just as stupidly unfun as it is in pvp.
What would make it fun for you at this point? It almost feels like we're given a clean slate here. The xuen traits seem experimental. Wondering what's on peoples minds. Was reading this earlier but I don't really have anything to add so I +1 it.
[/quote]
If you mean Fury of Xuen...it sounds interesting but I'm not excited that it gives haste when it's WW's worst stat.
My thoughts come solely from a pve standpoint but I think they can be relevant for helping pvp.
What kills the fun of the spec the most for me is the additional global cooldowns. SEF/Serenity on the global has a terrible feel to it. Energizing elixir was a nice talent but now it's useless because it was placed on the global. The opener has ToD, Xuen, sef/serenity, and sometimes karma which are all on the global. Then strike of the windlord, and tiger palm have to be used before the the WW can really start dpsing. I have missed using SEF several times because it was on the global and I didn't wait long enough. Even this far into the expansion I'm frustrated with having to wait on global abilities when WW used to be much more fluid.
The second problem I have has been circulating all over the forums. There is too much damage coming from ToD and Karma. Blizzard is thankfully trying to do something but I would like to see them buff FoF and Rising Sunkick while lowering ToD and Karma damage.
Getting rid of the karma damage and making it a pure heal/absorb would be nice. Then a chunk of WW damage wouldn't be dependet on tank taunts or hoping there will be a convenient raid mechanic. I could see altering ToD. I'm not a number cruncher but maybe make ToD a bleed or make it do a percentage of our health like in the past. Apply it and not have it be a damage window. It might not be as interesting but it would help move away from putting so much damage into one short window then hitting like a noddle for the rest of the time.
Perhaps bring back a form of tiger eye brew which could be a builder spender.
I want the WW playstyle to go back to being a fluid spec that's focused more on consistent damage rather than burst damage.
10/31/2018 12:45 PMPosted by WhitenøiseWhat kills the fun of the spec the most for me is the additional global cooldowns. SEF/Serenity on the global has a terrible feel to it.
I agree. One of the biggest issues with the GCD change in my opinion is losing the feel of gameplay to a system change.
If we expect Windwalker to be this well oiled martial arts machine and the rotation is streamlined, fluid, and satisfying we're going to reach the point in a fight where it's time to use Touch of Death. To me that "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" moment happens after I've finished my Rising Sun Kick, Fists of Fury channel, WDP combo, and Touch of Death is about to go off. I don't have a preference for ToD existing as a timer or as an execute, a button I press to end the combo, but in order to get that feeling I need the same consistency with my button presses in regards to the timing and pace. When you press RSK into a FoF it feels very familiar and the pace of that combo is normal to me but the disconnect happens while your still channeling FoF since the GCD ends mid channel allowing you to get off that WDP instantly (where previously there was no WDP so if FoF dropped them low enough that next global was ToD). When that happened you knew that was it. You had them.
Now there is this time lapse in either case. If it's a timer, we'll you've finished your combo in 5 seconds with 3 seconds remaining on the timer and as an execute you've gotta wait for that last global. If you play against a Windwalker and you are familiar with that then it's like, well, I already know that this burst damage is scripted and you prepare for one of two scenarios depending on the options of crowd control or mobility you have access to; defensive for the timer if my health bar is high enough to survive the initial burst or defensive for the initial damage and I can soak the ToD burst.
10/31/2018 12:45 PMPosted by WhitenøiseI want the WW playstyle to go back to being a fluid spec that's focused more on consistent damage rather than burst damage.
That would be a welcoming change.
10/31/2018 03:41 AMPosted by Talbyy
The design is alright for the most part in my opinion but there are places that it could DEFINITELY do better off paper and in the actual gameplay.
[/quote]
The design sucks. That’s why they are forced to change tok change ToD change pvp talents and guess what. It’s still going to suck.
so in a matter of a few days they have unnerfed FOF and reverted it back.....
just shows us how theae guy have ZERO CLUE HOW TO DESIGN A GREAT and SYNERGISTIC CLASS
just shows us how theae guy have ZERO CLUE HOW TO DESIGN A GREAT and SYNERGISTIC CLASS
11/02/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Jouganso in a matter of a few days they have unnerfed FOF and reverted it back.....
just shows us how theae guy have ZERO CLUE HOW TO DESIGN A GREAT and SYNERGISTIC CLASS
They proposed a change and later realized that change made no sense for a specific spec and reverted it individually for them. Data mining (what informed you about the nerf in the first place) doesn't pick that up. Don't be do quick to jump to conclusions lol
I've said this elsewhere, but what's been a problem with me for WW is that it feels... Clunky. Not as smooth as I'd like it to be, with fewer responses than I'd expect out of a martial-arts-fantasy spec. In contrast I made a DH to try it out and Havoc feels exactly how I wish WW felt. Down to being able to slow fall (a la Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), health orbs being consumable within a short range instead of running through them, how smooth transitioning between abilities and pursuing enemies, etc.
Not super experienced with the class, so I can't really comment at much more than an amateur level, but my damage feels alright for my gear level so far. It's the stuff around the damage that makes WW feel less complete, plus how weird ToD and ToK feel in PvP
Not super experienced with the class, so I can't really comment at much more than an amateur level, but my damage feels alright for my gear level so far. It's the stuff around the damage that makes WW feel less complete, plus how weird ToD and ToK feel in PvP
Mvp doesnt have any rating for current season, so how is he feel he can comment at all about current state of ww?
11/04/2018 01:34 AMPosted by QuarterpoundMvp doesnt have any rating for current season, so how is he feel he can comment at all about current state of ww?
Rating is probably the most uninteresting thing to care about in a conversation and I don't really feel the need to use it to defend my opinions. I tanked before Blizzcon playing with some buddies because I felt like learning how Mistweaver plays in arena this season. That's probably the most I'll care to say about it /shrug. What interests me is the general health of the game, RPG elements, competitive design, and what each specialization brings to the game thematically.
In a conversation, if you choose to engage in it anyway, you can typically generate an idea of the who the players are that your talking to without feeling the need to scrub peoples armories. A players experiences, especially ones that are varied can be so valuable so I can't really see myself in the mindset of a player that will scrub another persons armory to invalidate what they've got to say rather than just replying to it on topic. I think that the WoW forums, specifically the monk forums, are very good at engagement and I would just hate to see someone get swept up in into this mentality where they overvalue rating in a discussion and it ends up being the catalyst for confirmation bias. When that happens we just end up in this perpetual echo chamber.
There are some fantastic minds here. You should post on your monk and stick around.
as far as pve goes what i dont like is having so much damage wrapped up in ToD. I feel like a sub rogue in hellfire citadel, just passing the time in between shadow dance.
i know we are losing a lot of the ToD damage soon, but i feel like our attacks that are on a cooldown are way to soft.
i was really looking forward to not being balanced around set gear, only to end up doing the azerite power shuffle. not what i was hoping for really. i enjoy azerite powers that give you something to do.. something extra you work in, not just hey, your FoF hits harder now.
i know we are losing a lot of the ToD damage soon, but i feel like our attacks that are on a cooldown are way to soft.
i was really looking forward to not being balanced around set gear, only to end up doing the azerite power shuffle. not what i was hoping for really. i enjoy azerite powers that give you something to do.. something extra you work in, not just hey, your FoF hits harder now.
I top damage in the random BGs and on world bosses quite often. So, I don't think damage is the issue.
For rated, I'd say that the loss of stun on fists and the huge cooldown increase on paralysis are the big issues.
Edit: Also, you can't score easy kills with ToK against good players but it sure is good at killing bad players. :)
For rated, I'd say that the loss of stun on fists and the huge cooldown increase on paralysis are the big issues.
Edit: Also, you can't score easy kills with ToK against good players but it sure is good at killing bad players. :)
11/04/2018 04:17 AMPosted by Talbyy11/04/2018 01:34 AMPosted by QuarterpoundMvp doesnt have any rating for current season, so how is he feel he can comment at all about current state of ww?
Rating is probably the most uninteresting thing to care about in a conversation and I don't really feel the need to use it to defend my opinions. I tanked before Blizzcon playing with some buddies because I felt like learning how Mistweaver plays in arena this season. That's probably the most I'll care to say about it /shrug. What interests me is the general health of the game, RPG elements, competitive design, and what each specialization brings to the game thematically.
In a conversation, if you choose to engage in it anyway, you can typically generate an idea of the who the players are that your talking to without feeling the need to scrub peoples armories. A players experiences, especially ones that are varied can be so valuable so I can't really see myself in the mindset of a player that will scrub another persons armory to invalidate what they've got to say rather than just replying to it on topic. I think that the WoW forums, specifically the monk forums, are very good at engagement and I would just hate to see someone get swept up in into this mentality where they overvalue rating in a discussion and it ends up being the catalyst for confirmation bias. When that happens we just end up in this perpetual echo chamber.
There are some fantastic minds here. You should post on your monk and stick around.
It's competitive play that people care about that, not what we can do to bad players who don't know how to fight monks. And seeing you have zero rating shows me you have no idea what is happening at higher ranked play.
Did you really feel like learning how MW plays, or did you lose the heart to play WW because it's THAT bad for an entire tier and you and everyone else find the spec sort of dull now and it isnt worth it because, unlike sin or shadow that are very strong but boring, WW is the worst of all worlds.
It's okay to put it that way if so. I'm guessing you had SOME small interest in learning MW, and since you like your monk you gave it a shot and and hoped it would satiate you and you were quickly disheartened because you rolled a WW, not heals. In the end you tried MW because the state of WW is atrocious for a very long time now.
Bear in mind WW is currently the ONLY class without a somewhat viable DPS spec. And almost all have at least one very viable DPS spec.
Just go ahead and say it.
Even if you word it kindly and mellow-mannered as you are wont to do, I think the community might like to see as much.
Squeaky wheels get the grease my centered friend. See spriest and ele shaman.
Also your bit about how having higher damage causes people to defensively ignore you. As in burn CC and kite you to shut you down whereas now they just poly in your face. .You can't say that and act like it doesn't have a cost or isnt important to be a big enough threat to be force people to play defensive against you.
WW has solid tools to stay on target. Also if they're burning cds and gcds to shut you down, they're generating a lot less offensive pressure. And that's cc they arent using on the other dps or healer. Yeah that's huge, and also blanket sustained buffs would force that.
Nothing is free.
So in direct comparison I am playing a sin rogue in arenas right now at around 2100. I have floated close to 2200. Not great but I'm new to rogue. Let's look at what sin rogue brings that WW monk does not bring.
SAP in the opener SOMETIMES. Vs a hunter or DH or even boomkin its hard. You are often not able to get a sap in time due to positioning. It's also tough to generate enough pressure rolling in that opener with sap to force anything. Not a TON gained here.
Shorter duration CD on their 6s stun. Ours is a longer CD and 1s shorter. It's a solid difference but not a dealbreaker. Also ours has no resource cost besides a gcd.
Blind vs incap is the only clear big hitting difference. Blind forces a trinket in most cases, incap is a joke. Ok they definitely have that. I feel like incap should just mirror blind at this point.
The rogue gets a more threatening opener with silence garrote. Both have MS though the rogues is better/more consistent.
Other than blind, what sin rogues have over WW is really good sustained pressure via damage. And rogues are everywhere at 10% of the representation.
Dont say vendetta because even though it's great, our SEF/TOD is comparable. Everything is comparable EXCEPT the ease of play, ease of snare/MS, and really blind vs incap. I dont think that's enough to draw the line of viability.
Rogues have far superior defensives and healing, but you can play around that as WW with mobility.
It's the sustained damage that sin rogues bring over WW.
And this sin rogue absolutely TROUNCES my WW in m+. My sin rogue is geared worse and yet he destroys in ST and aoe. My sin rogue can sustain freaking 20k+ aoe WITHOUT cooldowns. All i do is FoK. Rupture, garrote, tab, repeat. DISGUSTING. My WW could never dream of that even with 385 OPSx2.
You think that's a problem? Guess what, sin Is one of the top ST specs.
So yeah, a blanket sustained damage buff is more than required. That's not even touching on the massive utility rogue brings in m+ with group stealth alone.
Start making a fuss.
It's okay to put it that way if so. I'm guessing you had SOME small interest in learning MW, and since you like your monk you gave it a shot and and hoped it would satiate you and you were quickly disheartened because you rolled a WW, not heals. In the end you tried MW because the state of WW is atrocious for a very long time now.
Bear in mind WW is currently the ONLY class without a somewhat viable DPS spec. And almost all have at least one very viable DPS spec.
Just go ahead and say it.
Even if you word it kindly and mellow-mannered as you are wont to do, I think the community might like to see as much.
Squeaky wheels get the grease my centered friend. See spriest and ele shaman.
Also your bit about how having higher damage causes people to defensively ignore you. As in burn CC and kite you to shut you down whereas now they just poly in your face. .You can't say that and act like it doesn't have a cost or isnt important to be a big enough threat to be force people to play defensive against you.
WW has solid tools to stay on target. Also if they're burning cds and gcds to shut you down, they're generating a lot less offensive pressure. And that's cc they arent using on the other dps or healer. Yeah that's huge, and also blanket sustained buffs would force that.
Nothing is free.
So in direct comparison I am playing a sin rogue in arenas right now at around 2100. I have floated close to 2200. Not great but I'm new to rogue. Let's look at what sin rogue brings that WW monk does not bring.
SAP in the opener SOMETIMES. Vs a hunter or DH or even boomkin its hard. You are often not able to get a sap in time due to positioning. It's also tough to generate enough pressure rolling in that opener with sap to force anything. Not a TON gained here.
Shorter duration CD on their 6s stun. Ours is a longer CD and 1s shorter. It's a solid difference but not a dealbreaker. Also ours has no resource cost besides a gcd.
Blind vs incap is the only clear big hitting difference. Blind forces a trinket in most cases, incap is a joke. Ok they definitely have that. I feel like incap should just mirror blind at this point.
The rogue gets a more threatening opener with silence garrote. Both have MS though the rogues is better/more consistent.
Other than blind, what sin rogues have over WW is really good sustained pressure via damage. And rogues are everywhere at 10% of the representation.
Dont say vendetta because even though it's great, our SEF/TOD is comparable. Everything is comparable EXCEPT the ease of play, ease of snare/MS, and really blind vs incap. I dont think that's enough to draw the line of viability.
Rogues have far superior defensives and healing, but you can play around that as WW with mobility.
It's the sustained damage that sin rogues bring over WW.
And this sin rogue absolutely TROUNCES my WW in m+. My sin rogue is geared worse and yet he destroys in ST and aoe. My sin rogue can sustain freaking 20k+ aoe WITHOUT cooldowns. All i do is FoK. Rupture, garrote, tab, repeat. DISGUSTING. My WW could never dream of that even with 385 OPSx2.
You think that's a problem? Guess what, sin Is one of the top ST specs.
So yeah, a blanket sustained damage buff is more than required. That's not even touching on the massive utility rogue brings in m+ with group stealth alone.
Start making a fuss.