Mistweaver play styles

Classes Monk
1

I’ve recently come back to the game after a rather long break and mistweaver feels very different.

From what I can see there are 3 play styles

1 - Fistweaving

2 - Caster, but with CJL as your filler

3 - caster but with SM as your filler.

I don’t raid anymore or do M+ so my experience with current MW is limited mostly to LFR, but I’m either missing something or something is off.

I ran LFR earlier testing SM vs CJL and would switch at 50%. So for the first half of the fight I’d use soothing mist as my filler and cast vivify on proc/as needed. Then at 50% I would switch to spamming CJL while keeping renewing mists up and casting vivify on proc.

At the end of the fight ancient techniques accounted for over 35% of my healer despite only being used for half the fight (CJL was the only ability I used that would trigger this, no rising sun kick, blackout kick or tiger palm)

Is Ancient Techniques really so broken that spamming CJL is the optimal casting playstyle now?

I’ve played monks for year but haven’t raided with them since maybe early shadowlands, so it’s been a minute.

Am I going crazy here or is either soothing mist just very undertuned or is CJL very overtuned? Or am I missing something?

Feedback is appreciated, thank you!

2

Short answer is not really no - there was a bug before causing it to be REALLY strong but it was fixed recently. If you are looking for “optimal” I would join the peak of serenity discord and check the info there or check out wowhead’s pre patch builds they have up. ( and then again when they finalize midnight early raid guides after midnight starts )

A JadefireTeachings/WOTC build is pretty good for prio healing injured people and it was LFR so not a ton of dmg was going out, also prepatch scaling is a bit weird and our stats are overbloated - I wouldnt trust it because it is a LOT of prio snipe healing on anyone injured - but if you enjoy it try it out in midnight and see if it works for you.

Sitting there using JFT/WOTC/CJL will snipe a lot more healing than soothing mist because that build’s healing targets injured people and if you were using CJL that much it would be a steady stream of quick healing coming in.

Soothing mist will probably overheal lots in those LFR raid situations, esp if you arent moving it around lots to injured people asap. Also Soothing mist you really only want to use when you ramp to make getting enveloping mists out easier, big ramps mostly if you WOTC but if you Way of the Serpent you can also use it for mini ramps outside of celestial cooldowns for lighter/medium damage, just be aware of when mechanics will hit to ramp and also be mindful of your mana bar/mana tea - try not to overcast - not everyone will need an Env mist for mini ramps ( like the tank or say us if we pop Fort Brew for something ) but try to get 5 ren mists out as often as possible.

Maintaining a healthy amt of ren mists and using RWK/RSK on cooldown in raids is HUGE for rising mist extends / more ren mists. If you sit there spamming CJL/Soothing mist you miss out on a lot of healing and would be ignoring lots of talent synergies. Most of the bread and butter is still the same from the last few expansions imo. CJL also probably doesnt really have a place in raids from the looks of it. You will be too focused on maintaining a healthy amt of ren mists up, ramping with SooM, or using vivify, so you wont get much time to get lots of healing out of CJL. For what it is worth too raids are more “ caster “ heavy still, in that we are probably runnin yu’lon and similar builds to the previous expansion/TWW.

JFT+Way of the Crane is pretty strong in m+ on big adds packs in midnight, you can probably still add in jade empowerment if you really like CJL and be successful for high enough vault keys but be prepared to SCK lots still too with that build on large packs. Id check wowhead/peak of serenity’s discord for what is optimal/best though if that playstyle is what you are looking for.

From someone who doesnt usually run meta and is going to be running a way of the serpent + non Jadefire Teachings build in m+ we still dont want to me sooming 100% of the time. It still affects your ability to keep ren mists up greatly and serves no real purpose. Bread and butter for WOTS/non Jadefire Teachings is still RWK/RSK on CD - fish for resets/ox procs with tp/bok and keep ren mist up on people to get lots of value from mistline.

This is probably what I will be running for m+ myself - I tested this on beta and it is fun/strong enough for my goals and then some imo - change around points as needed, I tried to pick up lots of the CDR reduction on ring of peace and stuff because it helps a bit since we lost our interrupt. ( again if you want “optimal” check wowhead/peak of serenity )
Mistweaver Monk Midnight Talent Calculator - 12.0.1 Beta

Below is what I will be running at first for raids if our raid is large enough in midnight - similar to the normal raid build now but slight variations on the wowhead ones, I will have to test out zen pulse again when midnight goes live because it felt pretty meh on beta, Ill prob change things around when it goes live to test other stuff out:

Mistweaver Monk Midnight Talent Calculator - 12.0.1 Beta

If our raid is small ( like under 13 people ) I might run a weird sheilun’s build instead for fun but I wont know till heroic raids drop and our guild’s raid size how that will play out.

Mistweaver Monk Midnight Talent Calculator - 12.0.1 Beta

Here are wowhead’s guides/builds if you wanna check them out too:

Best Mistweaver Monk Talent Tree Builds - Midnight Pre-Patch - Wowhead

TLDR: No we dont CJL or SOOM that much or for long periods of time, JFT/CJL was just really good at grabbing all the healing and looked better. Deff check out wowhead or peak of serenity’s discord if you are looking for optimal - it should have pre expac builds now and should be updated once things go live or shortly after.

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Returning MW since shadowlands
3

That’s a lot of good information, thank you!

I checked out the peak of serenity website but it hadn’t been updated since 2023, I’ll try the discord.

In terms of playstyle, is there a pure caster style? Or is RSK mandatory now?

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https ://www.wayofthecrane. io/

Try here closer to midnight if you are looking for optimal and most likely Way of the Crane/Jadefire builds. Meg updates more frequently I think.

Wowhead will prob update closer to the start of the season I imagine, once all the beta dust settles.

Pure caster still should use RSK/RWK on cooldown imo. Too many benefits/synergies and if you enjoy mistline/Way of the Serpent/ToM builds like me we want to try to keep 5 people covered with ren mist in m+ because mistline is pretty strong. RWK is a decent alternative if you arent running Jadefire teachings builds, it is maintenance healing still when you do the bread and butter stuff to keep ren mist coverage and reduces the need to be in melee somewhat. Lots of mini ramps with soothing mist-env mist and then a beefy SG follow up if needed. The times you are using soothing mist are pretty short - usually just to set up and keep env mist coverage for mechanics. ( mana tea and regen for SG stacks for another big SG if needed - I expect people to randomly take damage so I decided to pick up Tranquil tea and Energizing brew to refill SG stacks very quickly if needed and it’s pretty cool ).

Could forgo TP/BOK if you really dont want to not be in melee at all but I personally don’t suggest it. Without Rising mist you really want to be on top of keeping renewing mist up and also trying to tp/bok for resets and Env Mist/Ox procs.

If you are going to look at the m+ build I will be running you still want to be using TP/BoK and RWK on cd during downtimes / light damage where you dont need mini enveloping mist ramps. RWK is pretty good alternative if you really hate RSK too. The build I posted that I will be running in m+ is pretty light on meleeing but you still kinda wanna be in melee to fish for RWK resets when you arent healing. I wouldnt suggest sitting there soothing mist full time waiting for things to happen - ren mists will fall off quickly.

5

Yea that’s unfortunately the conclusion I came to as well.
I don’t particularly like being in melee or having keep RSK/RWK on CD. I was hoping a soothing mist style still existed like in MoP/Legion.

I really enjoyed the launch style of mistweaver, before fistweaving was even a thing. At this point I feel like Monk needs the Druid treatment and split mistweaving into way of the crane/serpent like they did with Guardian/Feral.

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6

Id be so down for this. Legion is where I started monk and I loved it.

Like I mentioned above you could pick up RWK and forgo tp/bok and soothing mist more and stay medium range probably without issues at all, if that is more fun for you - just be very aware of your renewing mists drop off - there is no real benefit to soothing mist 100% of the time. You only get so many Black ox procs per minute either way tbh and your SG should proc it if used enough. Im sure it could still be pretty successful up to the 12 area, and if you are going for AOTC Id say have fun with your talents and do what you enjoy + seems effective for your group.

The above build I beta tested in the 13-15 range and had no issues at all in m+. The raid builds are slight variations on the meta one from wowhead. Depending on our raid size I will swap some stuff around if I dont think something is working or feels off.

7

Wait, is RWK not a melee ability?

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Rushing Wind Kick - Spell - 12.0.1 Beta

25 yard cone in front of you so you cant be wherever and press it, even with no add/boss targeted, but it doesn’t need to make contact for the healing portions to work ( just need either of you HoT effects on people )

It wont put you in combat or hit adds that arent aggro’d either so dont worry about pulling extra with it.

RWK also works with all RSK related talents. The damage ones and healing proc ones. So it puts up ren mists too from Rapid Diffusion and procs Vivacious Vivification. Which is the main function tbh, to be able to proc the important stuff even when we cant be in melee.

It will heal people with ren mist for a decent amt ( esp if you ramped env mists with mist wrap talented ). Which if you decide to use the build I will be using makes up an okay part of your maintenance healing - till you need to do mini SooM/Env ramps.

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9

Oh well that’s neat!

And I imagine it does more healing than CJL with ancient tech.

I’ll have to try that out today, thanks for all your info :smiley:

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10

Not sure on this math wise. That is the downside though, you cant pick up RWK if you want to keep JFT/Jade empowerment. If you dont have Jadefire teachings you probably really dont want to be using CJL or jade empowerment at all. Maybe some math people can give us a definitive answer here but just using RWK on CD and tp/bok for resets ( without JFT in m+ ) probably would still be better or similar for maintenance healing as spamming CJL with JFT+JE is my guess. ( if you take into account all the various sources of healing and consider that CJL spam wont proc anything and leave you with significant ren mist uptime loss )

TP/BOK for resets and RWK on CD in downtime does some maintenance healing till you need to soom ramp, and it also helps keep up your ren mists which will be good healing through mistline. Too much SooM or CJL spam would let your ren mists fall off, esp if you dont run Rising Mist for m+ like me - The build I posted for m+ will be heavier on prio and burst healing and have strong ramp/ren/env mist healing - and mainly have quick/strong sheiluns healing to make up for the loss of any maintenance healing. Probably not optimal or best, but it is pretty fun and from my beta testing works to a high enough key level and is a bit more pug friendly imo where I am expecting people to make mistakes.

Also it is worth mentioning if you run conduit you get lots of resets, more frequent tft, decent CDR on ren mist and RWK/RSK. It’s basically pushing up that stuff as the bread and butter when you dont need to do stronger healing so that when you need to ramp/pump it’s easier/better.

I think though if you were running Jadefire teachings you wouldnt want to be using CJL with any frequency or picking up Jade Empowerment at all anymore tbh, because your spin kick is pretty strong on like 4+ adds iirc. ( esp if you are going for optimal - but again that kind of info should be in the peak of serenity discord and/or wowhead guide they are the pros in all things way of the crane/teachings - I highly suggest checking that out if anyone prefers that stuff )

I think the problem with Jade empowerment is that it is in the last tier and takes up a talent point that is better spent elsewhere. You really dont want JE in raids imo because you would have to spam it to such a degree that it WILL affect how many ren mists you can get out in general which will severely impact your overall healing.

11

Can I jump inhere just to ask Whats the deal now with vitality? Is there a way to track it and we still use it with TFT?

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Apparently there is no good way to track it with base UI tbh. We have been asking for it on beta for months now. I personally havent spent much time with MoH myself but I think the icon for vitality works similar to Stagger for Brews, in that it will change depending on how much is stored, but that also kinda isnt a great way to tell. The icons are different entirely depending on the amt stored, not color coded like stagger. I found it pretty overcomplicated myself when I tested it - they should just add a bar or something that fills up lol.

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13

The value you get out of CJL because it’s going to heal injuries allies over manual targeting is huge in LFR.

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14

SCK spam with way of the crane does a lot more raw healing than CJL with jade empowerment + jadefire teachings, but SCK spam always splits its healing on 3 targets whether they need to be healed or not and CJL spam uses the ancient teachings mechanic that is smarter and will focus on even a single target if only one target needs healing.

CJL is also weird and has an initial tick, so you do more damage and healing with it spamming it every GCD rather than just letting it channel and pressing it at the end. I’m not sure that’s really intended since I think every other ability that worked that way was changed a long time ago, but it still works that way for whatever reason. I suspect they just never modernized it since it was never worth casting outside of a cooldown if at all in the past.

A CJL jade empowerment build is also kind of rough talent wise if you want Jadefire Teachings + Jade Empowerment + Mistline + tear of morning + spirit font. If you drop Shei line entirely it’s fine but you can’t get all those things + all 3 shei talents at once. You also miss out on RWK which means you can’t utilize any RSK mechanics unless you stand in melee and RSK between casting.

One person mentioned in the beta thread that even after it was nerfed/fixed to be essentially 4x weaker than it was most of beta, you can still use a jade empowerment build up to +12 probably in M+, so you’d be fine with that playstyle in most content in the game even if it’s mathematically inferior.

Soothing Mist could use improvements. I’d at least like to see it have literally any interaction at all with hero talents, but we’ve gone through yet another beta cycle for another expansion and they don’t seem to want to do much with it. I was surprised they actually added way of the crane/serpent, even if they didn’t fully flesh them out and make way of the serpent the strong caster-identity talent it should be.

Some people are specing into way of the serpent just for the RM/Viv/Shei bonus even when still playing like fistweavers, which I don’t believe was the intention of adding the style talents. They were meant to have you choose a caster focus or melee focus rather than be a stat buff. Maybe they’ll update them in 12.1.