This is how it essentially works:
You cast frost bolt >
Did it hit? Yes/No
if Yes
Did it crit? Yes/No
Ability lands with a 30% chance to crit.
If no, ability is a miss or resist, therefore it cannot crit because it failed the ‘hit’ roll.
Crit chance only effects attack and abilities that land, it is not calculated before you cast the spell.
pve or pvp?
pve is a 1 roll system
obviously im talking about abilities in general
this is what confused me:
Suppose a mob of equal level is attacking your warrior character in melee. Your Defense skill is maxed out for your level, but has no other bonuses. In the general tab of your spell book, you see that your listed Dodge chance is 4.5%, your listed Parry chance is 6.2%, and your listed Block chance (you have your shield equipped) is 5.1%. For the mob attacking you, its attack table will look like this.
| Result | Chance | “Die Roll” |
|---|---|---|
| Miss | 5.00% | 0.01 - 5.00 |
| Dodge | 4.50% | 5.01 - 9.50 |
| Parry | 6.20% | 9.51 - 15.70 |
| Glancing Blow | 0% | — |
| Block | 5.10% | 15.71 - 20.80 |
| Critical hit | 5.00% | 20.81 - 25.80 |
| Crushing Blow | 0% | — |
| Ordinary hit | 74.20% | 25.81 - 100.00 |
according to this, with 5% crit, you have 5% chance to crit and 74.2% chance to hit, so it’s actually 5/79.2 chance to crit, or 6.31% chance to crit, and the crit chance increases as the mobs avoidance increases
according to the formula above, if you have 50% combined chance to avoid a hit, and the mob has 40% crit, of the abilities that actually land, 80% will crit (40% crit, 10% hit, 50% dodge parry block miss)
This seems to be talking about mobs crit chance, maybe it’s different for players?
I learned a lot from this thread thank you
this isn’t true
hit and crit are done at the same time
according to this thread
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/something-is-wrong-with-warriors/644665/45
it agrees with the research i’ve posted about more avoidance increasing the ratio of landed crits to landed hits
so if theres 100% chance to hit, 0% chance to dodge parry block miss etc, and 20% crit, on average, out of 100 swings, 80 will hit, 20 will crit.
NOW, if the rogue popped evasion and increased dodge to 50%, out of 100 swings, 50 would be dodged, 20 would still crit and the remaining 30 would hit… so that means 40% percent of landed swings will crit (20 out of 50)
so if the rogue had 80% dodge, and the attacker had 20% crit, ALL landed attacks would crit (80 dodge, 20 crit, 0 miss)
i literally do not know for melee, what i said before applies purely to spells
sorry
in pve yes, in pvp crit and hit are separate rolls, for example in pve if you block an attack it can not be a crit (or a crush for that matter but that’s not usually a factor for most people) because pve is on a one roll system. In pvp a hit can be block and a crit at the same time
No. if the rogue has an 80% dodge chance, then that means you now have a 20% chance to land a hit. If you have 50% crit, 50% of those 20% hits will crit. Your crit literally does not change your chance actually land a hit.
not according to everything I’ve read
show some proof of your claims
Common sense and 15 years of gameplay. Thats a bearhands thread, he thinks he knows everything about everything when really he knows nothing.
This was a well-known bug in either vanilla or tbc classic. maybe on private servers too. someone refresh my memory. Not saying you’re wrong in wrath classic, but it just reminded me of some huge glaring bug that actually did what you are saying
I know this sounds trollish but yea something along those lines existed . similar how warrs in classic didn’t need offhand hit cap as long as heroic strike was queued
Thats true, and was fixed going into wrath. Heroic strike is an ability, which means it requires less hit than white attacks. Queueing heroic strike would make your auto attacks miss less, if i remember right.
Hey that’s me! I was so young and full of hope back then. 
I mean, I think I proved my point pretty well. They were claiming WOW uses a 2 roll system. I linked about a dozen threads from EJ theory testers and ultimately GM’s saying that was incorrect. As I remember you were one of the proponents of the “2 roll” theory despite the evidence to the contrary correct?
OP seems to be primarily talking about PvP, since he referenced a rogues evasion, which does use a 2 roll system. PvE is irrelevant.
I’ve read the material posted here, and honestly it still doesn’t make sense how PvE uses a single roll system. You cannot crit if the hit doesn’t land. Having high crit cannot force a hit, that system seems to be all kinds of messed up.
Also i’d like to add on the Loetheb fight specifically, its very easy to obtain over 100% crit, however your attacks can still miss and dodge, meaning that crit cannot force a hit to land if it misses or dodges first, confirming some sort of 2 roll system even in PvE.
You’re literally describing the crit cap bro… part of the single roll system…
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