Missing the point on BM runes

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
62

Open world pvp is completely optional content that you opt into engaging with when you pick your server. It is not the same as raiding. It is not required to progress your character in any way at all.

Warriors are the best melee for group pvp. They have huge burst damage, AoE fear, AoE slow, disarm, 2 spell interrupts, the highest damage mitigation and hp in the game, and the best pvp debuff in the game in mortal strike.

Warriors are the best dps for group pve. They deal 100% more damage than any other class.

Hunters aren’t king at either of those things. Hunters aren’t even king at leveling or farming, mages are. What you’re expressing is an opinion of a person who has very little actual experience in the game.

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Raiding is optional friend.

When full BiS*

When full BiS*

Originally you claimed they did 73% more, now you claim they do 100% more.

I’m not even bothering with this any longer, you are intellectually dishonest.

Hunters are fine.

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Raiding is not optional. It is the primary means of character progression in the game. There’s no way to have a conversation with you if you’re going to be disingenuous.

Wait till phase 2. They’ll easily be 100%. In era the gap is over 100% and the runes so far have only made warriors scale even better without doing much to the other classes. You’re the one being misleading and intentionally dishonest. Stop playing the victim.

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That’s fine. I don’t care to engage with someone who just makes stuff up anyway. When hunters start performing like every melee class other than warrior/rogue in raid, or any caster for that matter-then I might take their complaints seriously. With that being said, raiding is absolutely optional, and in optional raids-hunters are doing amazingly being at third spot in the logs.

Speculation and conjecture. You don’t know anything other than what your emotions tell you. Furthermore, your claims are completely false as of right now. You’ve multipled times claimed that warriors are 73% better dps and now 100% dps better in the current game than hunters, and then later on everyone else. This is patently false. It’s a complete, 100% fabrication. You made it up.

Coming in here and crying that warriors are good for 30 minutes per week as opposed to hunters being good all week (much better than warriors in fact) while hunters are still number three on the overall logs assuming everyone is in bis gear is just dumb.

Hunters outperform literally everyone until everyone catches up in gear for 30 minutes in raid.

We get it. You’re a hunter main. You’ll be fine. Relax. Hunters are great.

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Its almost like era data can be used to get a strong idea how classes will perform.

We see hunters strong without gear in era.
Yep same in sod
We see warriors as the best dps by far after they scale with gear.
Yep we see that in sod.

Amazing how we can look at the base class from era to get an idea how it performs in sod.

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What point do you think you’re making? I’m not making an argument for warriors.

I’m saying that Hunter specifically, is fantastic. It’s doing better than everything other than rogue and warrior at the very highest gear levels in raid.

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For p1. The place hunters have always been the top class. And yet we are not the top class now at the level range we have been king in era, we are not king in sod even when considering being twinked.

Most hunter concerns is for p2 and onward because blizzard also has a trend of heavily nerfing hunters early and leaving them to rot late game, on top of era data showing that we know hunters fall off as levels and gear rise, with us already not in the number 1 spot at the level range we would be number 1 in era. Add onto that how poorly they have done with hunter runes and that doesn’t make us confident for p2 runes.

Yes hunters are strong in p1. But all historical data points to hunters falling off a cliff for p2/3/4.

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If I am reading them correctly, the problem with Chimera shot is that it doesn’t do what it says it does. Now, my hunter isn’t high enough to test this myself, and he could be completely wrong, but what the ability is supposed to do is refresh your current sting, and do some extra effect depending on which one.

With Serpent Sting, it is supposed to do 40% of the damage the sting does.

What it sounds like they are saying it does is, instead of refreshing the sting that is currently active, it applies a new one at the 40% value. So instead of the 80 damage over 15 seconds a fresh rank 3 would give you, it applies a 32 over 6 seconds. Now, I believe that would tick for the same damage as the 80, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is not doing what it says it will. I know from playing on a lower level hunter that you can’t reapply the original Sting, as it thinks that one is better.

So, this creates a situation where you don’t want to use Chimera Shot for at least 12 of the 15 seconds your sting will be active for, because you’d lose ticks as a result. Which means that, for the suration of the Serpent’s sting, you don’t have a spammable auto-attack+ with a 6 second cooldown, you have a 12 second soft cooldown.

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There is no level 25 raid in era.

I mean going by this logic, no other class other than a full BiS warrior is (and only in BFD.) I guess you think hunters are supposed to be at the top of the meters?

They nearly are already btw. While having an infinitely easier time of the game literally everywhere in the game compared to every other class.

So you guys are just crying today, for tomorrow’s game problems?

71

We are trying to not end up as the only pure dps class and being in the low end of dps.

But at the same time some of the current complaints is because blizzards actions do not match their stated goals.

They said with the most recent nerf their goal was to move power out of the pet and into the hunter.

Which hunters are fine with if that is what actually happened. But it isnt. What we actually saw was about a 12% nerf to our maximum output and the buffs to chimera and explosive did not outpace that nerf at all.

Unless the fight is short bm rune is still the best. And on short fights chimera basically breaks even with the nerfed bm rune. So in reality, while the glove runes are much closer, it was atill a 12% overall nerf to the classes overall performance, when we were not even the top dps.

If warriors and rogues also saw a nerf to bring the entire top end down a bit it would make sense. If the buffs to hunters in other areas only resulted in maybe a 1-3% nerf it would make sense.

The problem is 3 fold. The future of the class, the stated goals by blizzard not being in line with the results of their actions, and the current state of all classes making us question why the 3rd place dps just got a heavy nerf while number 1 and 2 didnt get touched.

A 12% nerf isnt small, add in all the other nerfs hunters have gotten (more than all other classes combined) and it raises a red flag for considering the future of the class.

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Considering that today, this very moment; under the most extreme gearing circumstances: Hunters find themselves at the lofty number three position in raid. Think about that for a moment.

No it wouldn’t. The necessity of the BM nerfs fall pretty much in line with every area of the game. You’re specifically pointing to a single half hour out of the entire week that Warriors and Rogues are “better” than hunters.

Which you have absolutely no way of knowing anything about. You point to Era as your benchmark when this is obviously not Era.

All the other nerfs, and in a pve only scenario; under the most extreme circumstances of gearing and raid optimization-hunters still find themselves in third place.

Do you not see how ridiculous all this whining is?

Hunter is fine. Hunter is beyond fine in fact.

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That’s the existing era gap.

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Barely at the 95th percentile and at 99th they are behind feral. And it will only fall farther in p2 based on what each class gets available to them from era and the trend that runes have taken for hunters va other classes.

Again. If they actually redistributed the damage to the hunter out of the pet instead of a full 12% overall nerf what they did would have made sense. But the only way a 12% nerf to 3rd place (now falling to 4) dps makes sense is if the 1st and 2nd also got a nerf.

I do actually looking at history and observing statistical data that applies to the circumstances being predicted along with observing historical trends we can get a decent idea of future events. The sod classes are built on the foundation of era classes, so we get an idea of class power and scaling to some degree. We also see a historic trend of blizzard nerfing hunters hard early in expansions because they have high base damage, and when poor scaling causes them to fall behind late in the expansion they dont fix it until next expansion. And this cycle has repeated over a half dozen times through wows life.

With this hostorical and statistical data we can make a decent prediction based on current events that hunters have been nerfed heavily early in the games life, we know scaling is an issue for the class based on era data, and we know blizzard tends to let hunters sit in ruin until next expansion after scaling starts to take place.

4th behind feral at the 99th and just barely above feral at 95th.

Ive been a hunter from actual vanilla to legion to classic tbc wotlk and now sod. I learned that if you dont make a stink about the issue before its an issue, it becomes a bigger issue.

Long time hunters do not trust blizzard so we get loud. We point out issues before they are hard stuck in the game.

Do you have any idea how bad most hunter runes actually are?

Sniper training takes 6 seconds to activate and is gone from the slightest movement. But wait theres more. It doesnt effect auto shot. The main damage output of hunters.

Flanking strike buffa mongoose bite which does 25 damage, has 0 scaling and is reduced by armor. AND requires the hubter to dodge and attack to even be used. The only reason flanking strike is the best rune on the legs is because its a free auto. The rest of its design is poorly thought out and poorly designed.

And serpent spread… its 32 extra damage over 6 seconds on 3 targets. Overrides a full duration serpent sting, bugs out with chimera shot putting a 15 second duration 32 damage sting on the enemy (so it deals damage of 6 seconds over 15 seconds…)

Kill command is gutted and only effects claw and bite.

Then the crown jewel lone wolf. A dps loss for mm or sv hunters vs NO RUNE AT ALL. (No reason to use this as bm for obvious reasons)

If their goal was to put power back into the hunter with the most recent changes instead of a straight up nerf, they could have buffed leg runes to return some of the power. (Chest rune buffs would do nothing as lion is the only real option)

Make sniper training 4 seconds to gain and also effects auto shot
Make flanking strike either 18 second duration or 40% reset chance
Make serpent spread remove the target limit on multi shot and instead effect all targets in 8 yards of the primary target (and fix the chimera interactions and overriding the stronger serpent sting)
Kill command gives power to the pet, so until a full rework happens dont touch it

Wow, that 12% nerf just got bumped down to about 3-5% nerf and power left the hunter pet and returned to the hunter! So hard!

Their stated goals do not match their actions. But hunters are used to this. Its why my forum character has this name and is a hunter.

75

This is not true. My Hunter has Chimera shot doing more damage than aimed shot. unlike Auto Shot and Aimed Shot it ignores armor.

I’m not BiS geared just yet but I have the epic crossbow and while on the turtle boss I crit for over 700 with Chimera shot. I take it over time as more and more damage from SS racks up without falling off the damage increases. You don’t get 30 or so damage from hitting a target with SS on it but it scales depending on how much damage over time they have already taken from SS so longer fights are better.

In World PvP I crit over 300 with it on geared players. Down to around 260 in WSG with all the damage reductions, I rarely get to let SS add damage to that.

If MM is awesome in WSG and in most 1v1 fights. The only issue is your damage falls off in melee and there is no good way to get melee off you atm while with BM you + the pet meleeing them back is more scary.

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You realize that boss takes bonus magic damage right? And has a crap ton of armor?

So of cource chimera hits hard on him.

Thats not how it works.

It doesnt compound with previous serpent stings. Its bonus damage comes from that serpent sting and that one alone. It doesnt ramp up over multiple serpent sting refreshes.

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I found the issue that was confusing me, thanks for the correction! I never noticed it was adding another attack and was thinking it would simply add the damage to Chimera Shot directly.

I’ve only swapped to MM recently and the turtle was the only boss that I even looked at my damage. When I was seeing 700+ hits I thought it was scaling the damage up depending on how much SS has done over a duration with the odd wording they have for Chimera Shot. As when I was hitting world mobs Chimera Shot was doing consistent damage with or without SS up.

it’s still a great spell that adds a lot of damage to our kit. Deals more damage than AS as an instant cast every 6s. Ignores armor so it’s still good versus classes we normally lose a ton of damage on and has more utility than just damage added in it.

While I would not mind if they buffed it further :wink: I think the people saying it’s still weak at 100% or 125% are delusional. It’s just that the BM rune is too oppressive with how good it is.

Our leg and chest runes need to be buffed as do most of the hands runes so they are useful and competitive with one another.

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WARRIORS NEED A MASSIVE NERF IMMEDIATELY

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I’m starting to think this idea that hunters were the “best dps” in the 20’s is a weird mandella effect because 29 hunters were strong twinks.

As far as I know we had what to go on for this information, parses from Arugal?? Hunters never had amazing staying power with regards to their mana.

When were hunters ever known for being the best 10 man raid dps in the 20s in classic/vanilla??

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This would make 1 hunter as valuable as 15 other people in ashenvale, even at 8 yards.

You probably don’t care publicly but hunters have the luxury of quietly enjoying being one of the strongest pvp classes in the game.

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The damage of multi shot should still hit 3. The serpent spread is what should not be limited on targets.

Unless you think an aoe 32 damage dot is op. Then explosive shot should be nerfed more.

I didnt word what i meant very well so sorry about that.