Mighty Bash vs. Storm Bolt

Neither the person I was replying to nor the OP were specifically referencing guardian.

Sure. Everything you said was intended to show that the class as a whole is improved, even though 2 class members are losing big.

I really think this is the current class design strategy - balancing entire classes against other classes, where one trash spec can be balanced out by an OP one of the same class.

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That’s rude. They should basically mirror Feral imo.

I’m putting a bit more focus on Guardian and Feral atm. (You probably know that I do a lot of Balance Druid stuff already.)

I’ve been a bunch of your posts and I really like reading your feedback. If you haven’t already, can you make a “wishlist” post?

General rules:

  • Any shared talents cannot move rows.

I’d really like to see how you would design your spec of choice.

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I don’t think a redesign wish list is realistic, though. Blizzard doesn’t want to redesign a class from scratch right now.

I think, as I’ve said in other threads here, that Blizzard needs to go pan-druid or form-limited on the class, rather than the hodgepodge that we have now.

Pan-druid would make all abilities usable in all forms.

Form-limited locks each spell to a form other than “people form”. Bring back Tree Form and lock Resto Druids into it to cast their healing spells. Basic stuff like Entangling Roots could require people form, and thus be available to all specs, but they need to be in people form to cast it.

Basically, if a Guardian Druid needs to shift out of bear form to cast Entangling Roots, then a Resto Druid should need to shift out of tree form to cast it, too (ditto for balance). The current system where Resto has the best of all worlds needs to stop.

If Cyclone is going to be Druid-wide, then it should require people form (requiring all druids to shift out to cast it) OR it should be a moonkin-specific form (requiring all druids to switch to moonkin to cast it, except balance druids who would be there already), OR it should be castable in all forms.

These are the approaches that will make Druid work. Any of them will work. Pan-Druid would probably require so many exceptions for balancing as to be a nightmare.

As for Shadowlands, I have a wishlist in the Druid thread already in 2 parts (one on Shadowlands changes, one on things needed to bring Bears up to par). Are you thinking that is insufficient?

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I kinda blame transmog for this next statement: I don’t think they’ll make Tree Form a thing again. The whole thing with Polymorph in PVP is a big one too. Short of casting spells in Tree Form, I’m willing to accept that being forced out of form as a druid doesn’t feel good when Resto and Balance can pretty do whatever they want in their main form. Changing how things work seems like an obvious answer.

Nope, I’ll have to find it though.

Posts 13 and 14.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/13?u=tewa-hyjal

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Unfortunately, after how badly Blizzard screwed the pooch in BfA for Guardian, the list of necessary fixes is now so long that I’m sure Blizzard looks at it and thinks “that’s too much! it’s ridiculous”.

Therefore, the outlook for Guardian is largely hopeless at this point. Blizzard doesn’t understand how badly the spec is underperforming, so we get things like Cyclone and Heart of the Wild hyped up, which do NOTHING for Guardian, we get a TON of nerfs to the spec in Shadowlands (which Blizzard probably doesn’t even realize are nerfs) and we get a watered down Berserk that is bascially the same as the already existing Incarnation talent.

And they don’t seem to realize how tone-deaf they come off regarding the spec. They’ve commented on every spec EXCEPT Guardian, and frankly, anything other than a list of 20-ish changes to improve the spec would be insufficient, at this point. Things are that bad.

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Hence this little guy!

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/pat

It’s ok, we’ll get another 1k druid beta thread again

Why aren’t ppl mentioning this in overall class changes in the Druid alpha feels like it is been brushed aside kind of like feral.

To comment on Renewal, I’ve asked about it in the past, and they like it as a simple talent. It’s not that it needs changes, it’s sorta designed to be boring.

Wild Charge, I think should be a baseline spell for Feral and Guardian. Then bring back Feline Swiftness as a talent +15% movement) at the expense of nerfing Cat Form down from 30% to +15% movement speed.

I still feel Balance Affinity should be Innervate, and HOTW made baseline. Then Typhoon returns as a talent.

Berserk is pretty boring, and doesn’t feel strong. Rage of the Sleeper rolling into it would be great.


Not sure why Bears don’t seem to have Infected Wounds…

We don’t want Infected Wounds back, we need Bloody Paws.

I meant, no baseline snare. mb

But it really isn’t. Look at your list from last month.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druid-class-changes/490706/14
It’s only 10 items long. And really if they only address 7/10, we’d be so much more fun to play.

1- Bloody Paws : easy to re-introduce by just slapping in on Thrash.
2- Rage of the Sleeper : bake this into the new Berserk. They’re reintroducing Berserk anyway; use the old RoTS features to make it a strong ability.
3 - Gutteral Roars : an easy fix to give this to all Druid specs. Not a critical one (IMO) but it does make Stampeding Roar more fun.
4 - Fae Silence : My personal dream. I loved this. This one is obviously going to take a little work, but for me it’d be well worth it. It’s fun and useful.
5 - “Rage on Pull” : I personally haven’t experience this problem, but I’m not doing as much content that is super threatening for my gear/skill. That said, bumping Rage on shift to 40 just isn’t very difficult. Susie the intern could handle this one.
6 - Innervate : Not as important to me, but I definitely see the extremely powerful utility here. But this seems like it’d be a bit of work to incorporate (and balance).
7 - Spells in Form : I’m not sure how simple this would be to incorporate, but they were able to do it with our Battle Rez, so why not?
8 - Pawsitive Outlook : A fun ability that shakes up the rotation. Not hard to re-introduce, as it was already there before. Just need to balance the numbers around it. But see #10 below.
9 - Primal Fury : Probably not that hard to incorporate. But then again, it’s just another feature to balance our Rage generation. To me, it artificially makes Crit useful, since our Rage gen will just be nerfed somewhere else to offset. Personally, I’d rather it do something more interesting on Crit.
10 - Gore : Making this affect Thrash is really interesting. Maybe just drop Swipe from Gore. Then a revamped Pawsitive Outlook (and yes, that is one of the best ability names in the game) makes Swipe have a chance to reset (and buff?) Thrash. This one might take some work, but would definitely be worth it.

So… is this list really all that daunting? It’s only 10 things (and I even merged #8 and #10 to cut it to 9). And half of them are really simple and quick fixes. For the more involved changes, pick 3 to work on. I really don’t think it’s an unreasonable workload.

My point is that I don’t want to give them the excuse that it’s too much to do it all, so let’s not do anything.

Let’s just say for a moment that Blizzard say “No” to the list of 10 things above or to any other list/feedback that was suggested by the community and the current playbook of Guardian will go live as is. I would at least like to know why they aren’t considering or making additional changes. I think that is the biggest obstacle for players to overcome.

What is their vision for Guardian (or all tanks)? Perception is reality to the masses and the perception is that 3/4 specs are being looked at and Guardian is the afterthought where all of the pieces lay where they fall.

I was extremely disappointed to learn that Guardian and Feral seem to have been forgotten again in Shadowlands. I would very much like to see positive changes for both specs. That said, these calls to nerf Resto and Balance by reintroducing the same BS mechanics you (correctly) claim are holding Guardian (and to a lesser degree, Feral) back need to stop. Don’t you think that “nerf the specs that are doing well so that we can all be terrible together” is a little self defeating?

I’m not sure that replacing one well performing, but controversial talent with a crappier, but still controversial talent counts as being looked at.

At this point, I’d LOVE to say it is only Alpha, but after BfA, I ain’t gonna be that forum dummy. I hope that they can get their :poop: together, but at this point, I am jadded beyond belief, and say “Yeah, they will probably screw the pooch and not fix it until next expack.”

But they did Feral by some form of design. I am not saying they are correct with the change but they made a deliberate change for some reason or another.

They are borking Guardian by sheer lack of foresight to what happens when they flip this switch and turn this knob.

For the benefit of us non-alpha testers, please make sure to add input about the latest changes as I pointed out to Tewa(The increase from 1 sec to 5 secs for Brambles) on the Alpha class forums.

At this point, and considering Blizzard’s apparent “Resto First, Resto Always” design attitude toward Druids, no.

For years now it has been an irritant. Something we’ve slowly been improving on, starting with potions usable in forms (remember when they weren’t?) then Battle Rez in forms (although Ferals inexplicably lost that…) and Remove Corruption halfway through BfA (yay!).

But there’s a double whammy right now that, taken together, have really been the last straw for a lot of Ferals & Guardians.

The first was the list of COOL NEW THINGS FOR DRUIDS (Cyclone, Heart of the Wild) which are fantastic for Resto Druids and completely worthless for Feral/Guardian. Compound this with Torghast which has the Druid perk of HEART OF THE WILD IS NOW PERMANENT which just shows how tone-deaf the developers are on this issue, since this “Druid perk” in Torghast just doubles down on their lack of understanding of how Feral/Guardian even work.

The second was giving Stampeding Roar, our only utility, to Balance/Resto. While we (Feral/Guardian) STILL DO NOT HAVE INNERVATE so it’s a 1-way street.

If you don’t get what a colossal deal the Stampeding Roar thing is, well… then you just don’t get it.

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