Midnight: Devastation's Darkest Hour?

I do understand wanting to put the new stuff out first and see how it changes things. And the apex is a big enough problem I’m happy just to see it change, even if nothing else does. But some classes got a lot more work than others … and some of the additions have predictable consequences. Like making a tier set to force us to take Star Salvo when both hero spec’s capstone choices are already incredibly constrained.

Will be referencing some of this older feedback on the PTR forum threads, here’s hoping Dev gets more than its usual share of patch notes in the next update.

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Well, the projectile could have at least a noticeable trail of fire to add some juice

maybe we can start with evokers not getting 1 shot through multiple defensives

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It actuality really does satisfy expectations. I had first missread that the season 2 set bonus caused Essence Burst to cast a living flame at 150% effectiveness. I applauded the changes, not only for making good use of living flame and the talents associated with it, but for what looked like a more sophisticated version of the season 3 Essence Bomb build, where expending your essence bursts can generate it’s own essence bursts, creating a feedback loop. Adding alot of Single Target damage to Pyre without adding more unnecessary AoE (which it’s already doing more than enough).

I had calculated a panoply of different build options and I was elated. Even the return of clipped Disintegrate would have been possible, the damage would not be not that dissimilar than letting it finish. You would just be trading more Essence Burst proc effects for less empower spells and consume flames damage. I then realised after reading the official blue post that it was the preservation evoker set bonus, not the devastation one. Booourns… but it’s not all doom and gloom though.

As it stands the season 1 set actuality allows you use a pyre build since the set bonuses allows the rotation to never run out of steam, which is what is required from a pyre build. You’re not starved for essence or essence bursts, which is the only way to make pyre work. There’s no wiggle room though, you need every singlet alent point where it is, particularly Event Horizon this season, (even though it’s always essential to make pyre work either way). Again it’s the engine, as long as your not starved you never peter out.

Even with the recent nerf to feed the flame it’s still fesable. They’ve now changed the mechanism where the 6th pyre no longer counts as the first in a new series. Meaning it will drop a Firestorm every 6 pyre instead of 5 (functionally).

But, even with the feed the flame talent nerfed, given you have the essence to cast unlimited pyres (just pyres alone, no empowers, nothing but pyres) versus just disintegrate (with scintillation) you be doing only 9.52% less damage on a single unmoving target. Now if you were to factor the scorching embers buff of 25%, you’re actually doing 13.10% more damage. Crazy I know! Considering it’s on practically all the time. Keep in mind that’s not counting Arcane Intensity, since a Flameshaper Disintegrate build would have to forgo it (or other talents that are just as valuable) if you want to make it all the way to the top of the apex talents. Either way you’d have to miss out of something good and you’d be doing less damage.

With a pyre build you also get an evenly tied cooldown for Eternity Surge (unless you stack alot of haste, which you shouldn’t do this expansion since crit is king again), though not for Firebreath. I know it wouldn’t appear so on face value given that causality works so well for Disintegrate, but pyre builds use Event Horizon instead of Eye of Infinity so it’s baseline shorter by 3 seconds. Also, the instant cast of pyre means your save at least an extra second or 2 by casting Eternity Surge immediately when it’s on cooldown, where disintegrate will take longer to cast. Add the 2 super buffed Azure Sweep at 856.72% spell damage (single target) plus and extra 20% from Iridescence (pyre builds are guaranteed to use both charges on Azure Sweep) that’s 1228.06% spell damage each. Long story short, the pyre rotation gets more bonus damage from this season’s set bonus then disintegrate does.

As it stands (with the season 1 set and the exact talents) pyre’s full damage rotation on Single Target is flush with disintegrate. Again that ONLY if the target never zones out of the Firestorm.

Which is why i suggested many times that they reduce it to a 6 second Firestorm every 3 pyres at 60% total damage instead of 10 second one every 5 pyres. But they’ve must have changed again this week or the last cause it’s functionally 6 pyre now (even the wording changed from “Every 6 pyres ” to “After 6 pyres” meaning your 6th is no longer counted as the 1th in a new series. So I’m thinking a 5 second Firestorm at 50% total damage (that’s 0.8481% Disintegrates (factoring scorching embers)) every 3 pyres, instead of a 10 second Firestorm at 100% total damage (1.6962% Disintegrates) every 6 pyres. This would maintain Firestorms dps rate aswell as the damage ratio of each individual pyre. Nothing would change except the duration and frequency of the Firestorms. It would just prevent us from wasting too much damage. I love Firestorm but there’s alot of eggs in that basket and it feels bad to drop it on a moving target or freshly dead one.

The rework of dragon rage with the apex talents alone goes a long way though. A pseudo engulf it may be, but it’s not too overpowered, it’s well balanced with an emphasis on Essence Burst. Great for the rotation, great for the identity of the spec.

It’s still early to tell if a pyre build will work as well next season once we lose the set bonuses. Unbound Flame might compensate enough with 4 cooldowns dealing dealing fair damage, each of which generating essence bursts. It’s still hard to tell if it’ll be enough to feed the engine, but I think it might just be. However, with the upcoming buff to Disintegrate’s Consume Flames effect coupled with the upcoming set bonus, Disintegrate will pull ahead slightly.

They definitely need to find a better way to work living flame into the rotation though. As it stands, you don’t often get the chance to cast it (even when it’s instant) let alone get the full 3 stacks of ruby embers (which is an obligatory talent for pyre builds). There are so many other priorities spells, particularly with this season’s set bonus. I’d like more of a reason to use living flame and to make use of the talents associated with it. It feels underutilized considering it’s supposed to be our main generator.

All in all, I’m fairly content.

That is basically all specs. PVP in wow right now is completely dependant on cooldowns for kills. But i think the general idea is that dragonrage is a high cooldown and when you compare it to other specs they have 1 min cd cooldowns.

Dragonrage should have a lower cooldown. Also PVP wise evoker doesnt have anti heal, it doesnt have a execute so most specs that dont have anti heal or a execute (frost dk,enhance) normally has to have super high burst damage\low cooldown burst cds in order to be viable in pvp.

In my honest opinion i think the best way to solve this is to either A change dragonrage to a 1 min cd or 2 give them some kind of execute.

There’s a lot I disagree with here, but if you’re happy, I’m happy for you.

This was written about the state of Dev in early Dragonflight, when Giantkiller was 2.5% per point and we stacked Mastery; I had over 100% Mastery which effectively meant my damage decreased by 50% against low hp targets. Other specs do need cooldowns to burst, but Giantkiller is a special kind of self-sabotage. Overall though I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, I would love a 1-min cd Dragonrage. We are getting Unbound Flame instead, which isn’t exactly an execute but might be useful in pvp since you can save the charges for the right moment.

I am taking this as a win, and glad to see my biggest Scalecommander pain point (other than the damage meter) addressed. This means fewer but stronger breaths, a more reliable cooldown, and there’s a choice between optimizing marginal bombardment damage or sending every Mass at the priority target.

Overall, a healthy change for Dev (although I suspect it was motivated by Aug), with some room for tuning and concerns about secondary impacts (mainly to Imminent Destruction), which we’ll figure out on ptr.

Are you disagreeing with the desired playstyle or the math? Cause I can understand not wanting a pyre rotation. You’ve made your position clear on the subject and you’re absolutely entitled to that opinion.

However, if you disagree with the mathematics, then that’s another story entirely. I’m sorry to say but 2+2=4 regardless of whether or not we disagree on the matter. If this is so, then let’s just agree to disagree.

I am also happy that the recent changes please you aswell. Sounds like a win, win to me.:blush:

Okay TL;DR. I’m going to have to set aside a few hours to read all of that… but why get rid of deep breath? It’s absolutely unique, it has massive destructive AoE power, and adds a godly amount of mobility to the class.

Why get rid of it? So Evokers can be like every other class and cast the same 4 spells over and over and over?

Who said anything about “getting rid of” Deep Breath? It’s not going anywhere.

If this is about the Wingleader change … I do think they should buff the cooldown reduction per cast a bit; 1s per target, up to 4s total per cast, would be ideal, landing at a comfortable 36s cooldown after 6 empowers. The current version is a bit unsatisfying, not giving as much value as you would expect from a hero talent.

But there’s nothing wrong with a 40-45s cooldown on Deep Breath, especially with an extra cast from Strafing Run. About one cast every 20s is enough to satisfy in aoe; more than that is too much flying around dodging potholes while trying to squeeze in all the empowers / mass dis / sweeps in between. I don’t hate the current cooldown, but a lot of players think it’s too much, and I don’t mind seeing it toned down a bit. Removing the ‘extra’ cdr from Extended Battle prevents it from going too low, and not needing to tab-target Mass Disintegrate is purely an upgrade.

I misunderstood this sentence

Leveling my dev and at lvl 85 I can’t even beat normal prey. Do I suck or does this class/spec just plain suck?

SO I just leveled a few alts in the last couple weeks.
All were fully end of TWW max geared at level 80, fully enchanted, gemmed, and Tier.

I use single button rotation and did TW dungeons, Delves, and Void assaults.

I leveled
Arcane Mage
BM Hunter
Ele Shaman
Holy PRiest
Gard Druid
Ret Pally

even my Holy priest was doing more DPS then the Evoker.

I used wowhead specs.

it’s so crazy, Elemental Shaman does 20x the DPS.
Ret Pally 10x
even Bear Tank out DPS’d

now even at 90 and ilvl 250 full champ and some hero hero gear it’s the same… just killing normal world trash mobs to skin like the elder lynx in eversong its like being a healer DPS…

Not asking for anything here, just reporting that something is drastically wrong with this spec.

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Are you sure you were playing Dev and not Aug?

Your experience is not typical. It sounds like you might have been experiencing Single-Button-Syndrome. If you play Scalecommander, you need to manually cast Deep Breath on cooldown; it’s not included in the single-button rotation and it’s critically important to your damage. For both hero specs, you need to manually cast Dragonrage; Flameshaper does most of its damage during this cooldown. I also recommend using Press-and-Hold casting and not spamming the one-button to avoid clipping Disintegrate channels (you will need to release the button to cast empowers).

The one-button is not perfect, but it works, and Dev’s damage output is not 1/20 of other specs, if you are having this much trouble you are doing something wrong.

There is a significant level scaling drop-off for all classes at ~85. Some players have trouble defensively with Devastation in delves and world content; its playstyle requires you to kite mobs at all times with Hover. For Prey bosses you should be able to melt them during Dragonrage with Lust; use Obsidian Scales on pull, interrupt casts, and kite as much possible. Dev doesn’t have strong self-healing anymore so it’s simply a race between your health bar and theirs, using Obsidian Scales, Wing Buffet, and Hover to buy yourself time and distance.

Bit Sad Devestation hasnt really much time in the Sun since Undermine Raid - always get overshadowed in M+ buy evoker and shouldn’t feel forced to play healer just because Aug and Dev are in the Dirt.

going into midnight Season 1 came with little to no Class tree design apart from the apex talents for Devestation. your empowered abilities fire breath and eternity surge feel like just abilitys we use to make other abilites to better damage rather them being the God like abilities they used to feel like.

looks like im going to be rolling healer because Dev looks dirt bad on logs and augs might not be wanted in raid in season 2 Rip the dragons no love

Gotta say that I agree with changing the Apex talent. Aug’s apex talent is so much better.