Midnight Balance Druid Feedback (How to Solve the Moonkin Forever)

Classes Druid
1

Hey Devs,

I’ve obviously not tested the Midnight Alpha yet, but I think the Lunar and Solar Eclipse changes you’ve been trying to make are simply tackling the wrong problem:

  • Eclipse has been redesigned – You may draw the sun and moon into alignment for 15 seconds, empowering either your Nature or Arcane spells. Casting Wrath or Starfire changes what mode of Eclipse will be entered, and the two modes of Eclipse share a button and 32 second cooldown.
    • Lunar Eclipse: Enter a Lunar Eclipse for 15 seconds. Arcane spells deal 15% additional damage and Starfire damage is increased by 40%. Casting Wrath changes this to Solar Eclipse.
    • Solar Eclipse: Enter a Solar Eclipse for 15 seconds. Nature spells deal 15% additional damage and Wrath damage is increased by 40%. Casting Starfire changes this to Lunar Eclipse.

By separating both Eclipses, you’re essentially only giving more stuff for the druid to micro-manage, so I’ve come up with another simple and elegant solution to your “Balance” philosophy design problem.

:hourglass: Let’s go back a little
Remember when balance druids had to actually balance, cycling between Solar and Lunar phases? Well, the problem with that design is not tied to whether it was good or not, but to the fact that lunar phases buffed either AoE or Single Target. That’s the core of most issues with boonkin.

I think the balance between Lunar and Solar is a good way to maintain the class identity, so here’s how I’d change it, instead of your current attempt:

  1. Let’s implement the Lunar and Solar Eclipse balance phases back (casting Starfire builds Lunar Eclipse, casting Wrath builds Solar Eclipse), but with different functionality:
    a. Casting Wrath during Solar Eclipse causes it’s damage to be distributed to targets with Sunfire;
    b. Casting Starfire during Lunar Eclipse causes it’s damage to targets with Moonfire to be increased;
    c. Casting Starsurge during Solar Eclipse will cast a free Solar Empowered Starfall in an area around you (visually different).
    d. Casting Starfall during Lunar Eclipse will cause a star to collapse on your primary target, dealing damage similar to Starsurge.

As for the rest of the spec, adjust numbers accordingly. There’s no need to give Boonkins even more buttons to press, the problem is not on your philosophy, but on your execution.

1 Like
2

Nah, I like the direction Blizz is going. Balance doesn’t have a lot of rotational buttons to begin with, and this will give us much more control.

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3

The only reason why I don’t really agree with their direction is because casting an Eclipse essentially locks you from reacting to certain situations for the duration of the Eclipse. If for some reason you need to switch from Single Target to AoE (or vice versa), the current Eclipse will never allow you that flexibility.

That would be okay if Eclipse was a huge class cooldown, but it is essentially part of the rotation

4

Perhaps, but 30 sec CD, 2 charges.. I can’t see that situation popping up too often without a little planing on your part.

5

I’m very scared about the changes. Balance is feeling good in pvp this expac so a rework is concerning given the history of balance reworks… However I’ll be open minded about trying it.

I really hope Balance will be very good going into Midnight!

:crescent_moon:

2 Likes
6

So far and without deep analysis it seems to be heading in the right direction.
We are no strangers to constant reworks so we’ll adapt as usual.
I believe out ability to do damage in short living mobs is drastically improved with the mastery rework and changes to Starfall alongside with those Apex talents.
We’ll have test them out but I’m liking what I’ve read.

4 Likes
7

I mainly PvP. My fav Boomkin build was BfA S1, and I’ve mained it since Cata. I’m all for fewer buttons.
I liked BfA Boomy because of the ‘Starsurge first, then cast empowered spells’.
It was also slightly slower, but each ability cast felt impactful and calculated.
I’d much rather, for example, pool two Starsurges that hit HARD, as opposed to a ‘noodle spam’.

Cumber and bloat are, unfortunately, very often confused with complexity. There can be plenty of room for skill expression with abilities being flexibly useable for different situations, and not only when their button is glowing. The cohesion and reactiveness is what makes a toolkit feel ‘whole’, the capacity and player requirement to think about and answer any combat situation with the most appropriate ability (As opposed to being dictated which ability to use).

More control and player agency should always be the #1 metric for design for viability and longevity.
Choosing an Eclipse and having it easier to activate on demand is basically what I’ve always advocated for.
Have all our spells be better ‘baseline’ and then add a modifier (Eclipse) on top.

I also think it did feel as if we could use another mechanic.
Before, I’ve suggested making Full Moon a standalone ‘nuclear’ spender CD as a solution.
Moving Eclipse from a dictated/deterministic mechanic to an active ability solves both issues.

With all that said, I am still slightly worried about potential rotational rigidity and cumber.
It still feels to me like it might be a bit too slow to ramp-up.
YES, even ONE GCD after applying DoTs before you can burst is one too many;
in a world where most specs can burst instantaneously.
Balance shouldn’t need to use 3-4 GCDs only in order to start trying to burst.
EDIT: This seems to be less of an issue due to the Mastery change!

How could this be solved?
For Example:
Change Nature’s Grace (which seems like a placeholder), or another talent,
so that upon entering combat, the first Wrath or Starfire is instant.
Perhaps this could come instead of the Apex talent (Ascended Eclipses 1) instant-filler inside Eclipse portion, which could be changed to something else. This is good for mobility, even more so with the removal of Warrior of Elune.
(again, careful pruning of unreliable or complex timed mechanics / overwhelming reliance on cooldowns = good).

All in all, as far as the changes so far appear, I think I’m going to enjoy Balance very much and shall continue to main it in PvP and PvE.

What I’m most worried about atm is the removal of Renewal. Hopefully, with the buff to Frenzied Regen, the change to Heart of the Wild and other passives (such as Aessina’s Renewal - buff plz; and the new buffs to Matted Fur and MoTW), we can be compensated. I’d rather have more passive durability and be able to focus on damage and control.

I would also reduce bloat by making Feline Swiftness a choice node with Stampeding Roar. The former could be replaced by some talent that retains bonuses from your previous forms and grants a small HP shield when shapeshifting, linking it logically to Fluid Form.

As a rule of thumb, being able to choose between passive buffs to self-and/or core abilities; and extra buttons / active utility abilities would make good build variety; for different needs such as Delves or Solo PvP, vs grouped content.

I still haven’t found any videos of Midnight Alpha Moonkin, so I’d appreciate if anybody could link any :slight_smile:

4 Likes
8

I’m not so sure about what they’re doing with eclipse. I don’t mind that they give us more control but I’m concerned it will just feel too samey with Whirling Stars.

I think Whirling Stars was added to address the mechanical annoyance of eclipse. And now that they’re adding this version of eclipse where you press to activate it, it feels like these two options are doing the same thing in a way.

It makes you wonder why even cling to eclipse so tightly like this?

2 Likes
9

This couldn’t be more true. I don’t think the current way to detach Eclipse from the rotation is doing anything more to player agency than simply adding more clunkyness to the rotation. It’s just weird.

Because they don’t know exactly how to maintain the “Balance” aesthetic to the class. Balance what, exactly? I’ve sent my suggestion above, but maybe they should drop that philosophy entirely.

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10

Like the 5th eclipse rework now? And people think it’s finally the fixed rework? Just looking at a few people play it I can see that it’s janky. The rework in my opinion sucks and is low quality

11

By now, we Balance Druid mains, are masters at adapting to constant reworks.

4 Likes
12

I think Midnight Eclipse will increase overall rotational agency. It maintains our ability to choose ST/AoE burst windows and otherwise increasing our overall ability damage. I’ve been asking for this ever since the Shadowlands rework.
Having to cast two spells to confirm entering a pendulum, as current Balance is - that to me is WAY more clunky.

1 Like
13

Yeah this is definitely better but I just need to see it in action. I like the idea that you’re spending AP and blasting in your eclipse states, and building outside of them. Plus less reliance on DoTs to do full damage will be great to get damage out ASAP when needed.

2 Likes
14

I just want to see videos of the new ability animations!
Some new talents have very interesting names, and I can’t wait to see them in action!

3 Likes
15

Bring back free SS procs on dot ticks.

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16

I’d like to see something like empowerments and SOD together:

SOD had wrath buff starfire and vice versa, so:

●Wrath increases cast speed of next starfire stacking up to X number of times. (To be determined)
●Starfire increases crit strike chance of the next wrath, and you can stack the charges X number of times (TBD)
●Starsurge empowers the damage of the next cast of either wrath or starfire’s primary target damage, stacking up as much as you cast it
●starfall empowers the aoe effect of the next starfire or makes the next wrath explode

I could see a situation where you are casting AOE starfire in M+, for example, building up stacks for wrath, using Starfall, building up stacks for both, and then you have that last priority target that needs to die, and you fire off an empowered wrath that explodes and crits to do more priority damage for example, while still finishing off any surrounding bits.

Or you’re on a boss, and you have used wrath for a bit and starsurged, then adds pop and you have a chunky ST, fast cast of starfire ready to pop down that will hit the boss hard but also hit adds. (you would’ve have been starfalling so you would have the aoe wrath available in this case)

Now this is just a quick idea to throw out without thinking super deeply about specific interactions implications. I would definitely expect a dev to come up with a more eloquent version of these interactions that allow us to “balance” without the need for eclipse directly as a button (maybe the name of the “empowerment” only) because eclipse in this current rework feels like watered down celestial alignment…

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17

What does balance have to micro manage at the moment its litterally a 2 button spec right now.

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18

Balance is easy to play. The ramp is the annoying part which the alpha rework seems to have targeted specifically. Thank god.

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19

The point is precisely so it won’t turn into a button fest like other specs are. I personally don’t see a reason for two spells that do the same thing (Moonfire and Sunfire), and Blizzard has a tendency to do just that (i.e. Rip and Primal Wrath)