Midnight - Alpha trees Retribution

Notable mentions

  • CSAA is gone
  • Templar strike combo is gone (to be confirmed)
  • Crusade is gone but merges with AWM as a Capstone?
  • Rush of Light applies to both FV/DS
  • No more Searing Light and Divine Arbiter (nice)
  • Divine Hammer has been added to Templar and removed from the spec tree
  • HoW is gone* instead now replaces judgement inside AW, FV now resets Judgement (2 judgement talent now has support)
  • Justicar Vengeance finally bites the dust.
  • Radiant Glory now work with divine wrath but loose random activation (sensible but still 50% uptime on wings basically)
  • Shield of vengeance is now always casted with Divine protection and is removed as an ability
  • No more Dusk/dawn spender modifier and instead they become a basic baseline DR and damage soaking effect for the group (sound thematic with lightbringer but it’s kind of weird)
  • Which means… Templar’s Verdict damage increased by 25%. Divine Storm damage increased by 25%. (spender baseline buffs)
  • Final reckoning and ES are FUSED (YES) and we get a funnel type ability

Called it, somewhat

Apex talent

  • AoW proc increase BoJ damage by 150%
  • Spenders deal 20% increased damage in AW
  • BoJ makes a wave of damage during AW

Kind of mehh but ok, I really dig the rest.

We did away with a lot of the passive effects/capstones, the focus seems to be on empowering spenders and AW windows.

Things that were criticized numerous times.
They even acknowledge it in the alpha post.

Alpha post link
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/2175614/2

5 Likes

Hammer of Wrath has been rolled into Judgment. Will be interesting to see if that makes it to live this time.

Art of War seems to increase the damage of BoJ by 150% without the apex talent. Is that just a WoWhead error or do they stack for a combined 300% damage increase?

Is BoJ going to crit for 1 billion?

2 Likes

Good question, I don’t think it’s the intent, seems like there might be overlaps.

CSAA is gone - Boo for me, i am a fan of it.

Templar strike combo is gone (to be confirmed) - Now becomes a 2 hit combo per button press. Not sure how to feel about that.

Crusades merges with AWM as a Capstone - This is pretty lame IMO, always been a fan of crusade and happy to see it come back, now a passive effect and a nerfed one at that. A boo i guess.

Final reckoning and ES are FUSED (YES) and we get a funnel type ability - FR part is ok but ES part appeared to be ‘‘nerfed’’, it now collects it’s dmg from the initial FR blast rather then the dmg you are dealing to the intended target. Which if u ask me is AOE specific talent rather then a ST one since the 10% only account for that initial blast on the target. Pretty lame change for that if u ask me.

2 Likes

It was always stronger than Might, the thing was that Radian Glory put them on the same CD with virtually no drawback, meaning Might was just straight up worst in all scenarios with RG and not even in contention with 1 min build.

I think it’s a good compromise.

It also means RG will probably stay and be “mandatory”, divine wrath is also not an option so I hope it will work with RG

Re-read it.

It says it’ll hit the ES target for 10% of all the damage done to mobs hit by FR as it falls down.

In other words, for 10sec, 10% of all the damage done to marked targets will get funneled into your ES target.

That’s amazing and much better than the iteration they previously made in DF where it dealt ES damage as AoE.

If encounter/dungeon design stays the same as it is, that’s a very good damage profile to have.

Furthermore, it is a good thing that it’s not as strong in single target because it means that power will be shifted towards spenders.

Yeah i did.

Execution Sentence has been redesigned – Unleash a heavenly blast around the target, dealing Holy damage to all enemies nearby, and call down a hammer that slowly falls from the sky upon the target. After 10 seconds, target suffers 10% of the Holy damage you dealt to all targets affected by the initial blast during that time. Now a 1 minute cooldown.

Which means in ST circumstances, the blast will only hit the boss and gets marked by the blast which is now the ‘‘falling hammer’’ and 10% (instead of today’s 20%) goes into the boss. This clearly makes us into a funnel class where we now actively DEMAND for adds into bosses etc.

Ok maybe demand is too strong a word since most tanks already do, to some extent, pull packs into bosses so long as they dun die from it.

I mean, you need to take it in it’s entire context, not just cherry pick the loss of 10%.

The capstone is the a lesser FR effect (5% increase spender damage at all times it seems) and give you 3 back to back spenders to use.

That also count for something.

The real “nerf” is the 1min CD* if it is even a min, I can’t see it on Wowhead.

Since there’s no crusade now, maybe we will end up with 1 min wings to pair with this again.

Justicar’s Vengeance is dead. Finally, Blizzard had the decency to take it out back and do what needed to be done.

4 Likes

It’ll be interesting to see how much talent we can actually put in those capstones, I “want” them all but I don’t think we can get them all unless we don’t take the APEX talents which I don’t see happening.

1 Like

Is there any where we can look? Aka a source? Would like to see this more in depth.

Wowhead has them up, but they were all handwritten pretty much until they can do actual data mining.

1 Like

PAtch notes
https://www.wowhead.com/news/midnight-alpha-development-notes-378688

Article
https://www.wowhead.com/news/all-talents-tree-on-midnight-alpha-so-many-new-talents-378673#paladin-retribution

For the capstones, we have currently 10 point available for them, if we want access to all we need to invest 5 points a the first gate and then it means we can get 2 out of 4 capstones.

just watched someones alpha stream and they still had to press templar strikes twice, once for strike, then again for slash.

3 Likes

Can’t say I’m happy with the direction of merging SoV and DP - it makes situations in knowing when to push one, both, or any other nuance into something simpler.


On the other hand, SoV tied into DH technically means SoV is off the GCD, so congrats all - its now a damage optimization :sunglasses:

1 Like

That’s kind of mehh, but we are losing HoW as a standalone button and AoW procs are being nerfed, so there is actually some space to have it do its thing.

I feel it emphasize it being a defensive rather than a damage button.

It was always degeneracy to make this into a damage CD.

Now, at least to me, it’s should be clear that you shouldn’t pass your defensive to deal damage.

2 Likes

Sounds like a bug then.

Templar Strikes has been updated – Crusader Strike loses a charge but now strikes twice. Templar Strike slashes an enemy for Radiant damage and gets followed up by Templar Slash that deals Radiant damage. Templar Slash always critically strikes.

At least from my understanding it’s supposed to be a 1 button 2 strikes combo thing.

3 Likes

Meanwhile look what i found from Preservation Evoker portion.

New Talent: Wings of Liberty – Verdant Embrace may be used up to 3 times within 5 seconds with no cooldown. Choice node and gate 3 capstone.

:rofl:

3 Likes

Combining these feels kinda poopy though. Someone help me see the vision. (Or more accurately, combining these seems to take away from each other’s secondary effects/strengths)

Divine Proc:

  • Flat DR%
  • Increased Heals % received

SoV:

  • Absorb Shield over Health
  • Do the dmg you took back at end

New Thing:

  • Flat DR% (makes “popping” the absorb bubble harder)
  • Increased Heals % received (if you are already full health, there is now an absorb shield over your bar - Healers/self heals get less value cause absorb buffer / time it takes for bubble to pop is time away from bonus heals value)

Wouldn’t this ability be stronger in 99% of situations if it applied the absorb shield first, and only after it was popped you got a DR% and Heal Received % ?


Also,
you ain’t wrong.

Button is kinda wack. But it is also one of the most Retribution themed buttons the game gives ya.

1 Like

Highly situational.

I’d argue the situations where what you denotes would be a downside are difficulties where it didn’t matter you used the defensive anyway.

It also comes together with reworked Dusk/Dawn so it’s 1 less defensive but baseline more DR and if you’re above 85% health you take constant damage from a group effect.

I’ll give you that increased healing if you use the defensive at full health is not useful but given the other 2 talents, are you ever gonna be 100% anymore whilst fighting?

It creates an interesting situation for AoE damage as well where you can safely use your defensive with Blessing of sacrifice without much concerns about taking too much damage.