Method officially got Jaina world first

Cyouskin-stormreaver · February 13, 2019, 4:03am

Pssst.

Hey bud.

Racials don’t matter for everyone except the 50 players fighting for WF. That balance is better than most scientific theories.

Lenarific-ysera · February 13, 2019, 7:32am

And weren’t there 9 teams 8/9 before reset? so that in math would make it 180 people not 50… And if they didn’t matter why are there hundreds of post about them? please save yourself some time and also don’t come at me with smart attitude like you do every post i see you post in honestly idk how you are a MVP… Sweetheart

Powerbottom-zuljin · February 13, 2019, 7:50am

Ya, no. There were only two that were even close, and that was just because people were unsure how far Limit had progressed on the fight because they weren’t streaming. Turns out, Method got world first AND world second kills before Limit cleared it. It wasn’t really that “close.”

Its the internet. Every been to Pinterest, Tumblr or Twitter? If you think this is a lot of posts about nothing, you’re in for a treat.

Cyouskin-stormreaver · February 13, 2019, 1:40pm

People who have never raided at a Top10 level, yet alone a Top3 World level, think their words hold weight on game balance and tactics for the WF race.

8/9M Bosses were woefully undertuned (The fact 100 guilds are currently 8/9M is insane). Limit got most World First kills by, essentially, brute-forcing them. This tier was a joke, except for Jaina. And even then, Jaina was buffed multiple times mid-progression, bug fixes that made the fight more difficult, and multiple encounter-breaking bugs. Troll racial reducing the duration of Chilling Touch is very likely an oversight.

Only 2 of them were actually fighting for World First. They don’t even know if the boss is killable when they pull. They are looking for every possible advantage to even see if their strategy is the right one. They used the troll racial and found a great boost, but it still wasn’t enough.

Limit had an unkillable Jaina on Week 1, even at 10%.
Method got to 8% , and they had BARELY any wiggle room for improvement. They found it through better gameplay and were able to down the boss.

Jaina was guaranteed dead on Week 2. And by that time, the Troll racial would be worthless, gear would make up for the loss. The Troll racial would only make it slightly easier by that point.

I was giving advice to World First raiders long before I was an MVP. I know what I’m talking about.

https://wow.heroeshearth.com/b/Tagzz/read/what-happened-to-limit-on-jaina/

Lenarific-ysera · February 13, 2019, 4:50pm

Ummm Yes there were at least 23 at one point before reset come on…

Grognog-wyrmrest-accord · February 13, 2019, 5:13pm

Isn’t that what this discussion is about, though? The cash shop was leveraged by top tier players to get better gear and maximize racial abilities, in a competition to see who could clear a raid tier before anyone else in the world.

We can argue all day about the size of the impact, or if it would have mattered if Jaina had been killed at some later date, but it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that character service use played at least some role in the kill.

Regardless of how large or small a role you personally believe it played, any impact of character services on in-game competitions is cause for concern, and I would hope we all agree that the world first race would be better without “let’s go to the shop” being a legitimate top tier raiding strategy.

Cyouskin-stormreaver · February 14, 2019, 1:13am

This was a VERY NICHE racial trait on a single boss. The boss happened to be Jaina.

Relative impact is important. What they top 50 players in the world are doing is completely different from the rest of the world. The truth of the matter is that the Troll racial wasn’t needed to kill Jaina. It did provide some advantage which allowed it to be killed on Week 1 by the very best players in the world. Limit had a viable strategy that didn’t involve it. Jaina got hotfixed, then it became important.

This is VERY different from the past. Oddly enough, no one seems to have brought up SOO’s Thok progression. You had far more player transferring due to Beastslaying (the other troll racial). Beastslaying and Berserking combined gave the Horde a huge advantage at all times. (Beastslaying was effectively a 5% damage boost for your DPS, Berserking was already the best racial in the game for PVE.)

I’m not sure how many people know this – Method spent 50-100mil gold buying BOEs from various servers to get everyone at least a 415 Helm for Week 1.

And what about Limit transferring Alliance to grab a free piece of 400ilvl gear?

All of those were paid services too. I don’t disagree with the “cash shop strategy” argument you are making – I disagree on what you’re focusing on. Racials simply don’t matter in this case. When the #1 guild goes into the final boss 4ilvls higher than #2, that’s completely insane to me. Method literally paid to win through Auction House exploits, yet the difference was a troll racial? No, the troll racial had never been an issue before BoD.

Grognog-wyrmrest-accord · February 14, 2019, 1:30am

I knew about the gear gamesmanship. I agree with you that it was a problem.

I think because the troll racial reduced P2 Jaina DOT ticks, race changing still provided a measurable advantage of some kind. Was it necessary is another story, but it seemed to allow for faster progression. And faster progression was the name of the game here, where the competition was to see who could beat Jaina first.

I’m not here to measure which of these was the most egregious abuse of character services. That’s really not my concern. If you say there were worse abuses of the cash shop than the race changes, I’m fine with that. I’m more concerned with character services in general (including the ones that resulted in gear upgrades) changing the equation at all for a raiding race.

Anyhow, let’s talk solutions. Some things I think they could do:

create tournament servers for mythic raiders

or

create a “character services cooldown” that prevents characters that have recently race/faction/server changed from being able to participate in mythic raiding for [x time period] (a month? two weeks? I don’t know what’s fair).

What do you think?

Cyouskin-stormreaver · February 14, 2019, 3:20am

It also wasn’t an issue prior to the WoW token. Being able to convert gold to bnet balance didn’t help.

As far as Blizzard is concerned, they want to be hands-off. The community needs to enforce a standard/set of rules.

As far as solutions go, they cannot impact non-World First players. It just can’t happen they way I’d hope. And a tournament server is unlikely because those servers aren’t a mirror of the live servers.

As far as character service cooldowns – it would impact normal players too much.

(Sorry if I sound blunt, I’ve ran potential solutions through my head for multiple tiers, and it either costs too much money to be worth it, or the impact is too high to regular players. The “best” solution is a community-driven set of rules. And a global launch/open would be required in order to enforce fairness. NA is basically testing buggy bosses and EU gets the fixed version, so they have more time and energy to work on harder bosses.)