Post-facts more like it ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
This goes for absolutely anybody in the story. But it doesn’t take away from the fact that they are elements in the story. Saying “Anduin is written by writers” takes nothing away from his characterization.
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Why do I believe this thread is a thinly veiled attempt at arguing that the lives Sylvanas has saved outweigh those she’s taken? After Teldrassil.
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Of course, but their continued existence is a result of the nature of the game not their interactions with other characters.
That goes for absolutely everybody in the game.
The interaction with other characters IS the nature of the game. It is one and the same. Sylvanas saved X character. Sylvanas is not a nice person. These are both due to the nature of the game. One doesn’t hold any more weight than the other. Both are equally true as lore.
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It does go for absolutely everybody in the game. That’s my point.
But my point is that it doesn’t invalidate the lore just because the writing is written by writers. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
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But again it’s not about invalidating the writing.
Those interactions were done within the context of “they won’t die as they are faction leaders”. Sylvanas no more saved them than Varian or Jaina spared NPC X by choosing to do Z instead of executing them.
It’s just fluff meant to exhibit a certain idea.
In the case of Sylvanas and Varian, it’s to show that this is a cooperative Horde/Alliance attack… which as you know turned out to be quite ironic later on.
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She saved them in the lore. Your meta argument doesn’t invalidate that fact.
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The lore is directed by meta.
right. and that does nothing to invalidate the lore.
edit: saying “teldrassil was burned to show how bad Sylvanas is” doesn’t mean Teldrassil wasn’t burned.
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Sure but as we’ve seen Teldrassil was burned.
In this case it would be an example of a “faction leader” that was written to die by Sylvanas’ hand. This is a specific example where the meta and lore intersect.
Of course i can understand where you come from, but this is the debate that is somewhat similar to the whole “Jaina in the docks” situation. Would you say “Jaina spared the entire Horde team including the player”?
Some say yes. Some say no. Depends on how they extrapolate.
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These aren’t all a case of extrapolation. We saw Sylvanas save Varian. Nathanos tells us she personally saved him. We played through her organizing the Forsaken into a fighting force. We saw her save the Horde at the Broken shore.
The point of these events was for the writers to tell us she saved these people. Not for anything else that is being extrapolated on.
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Both Thrall and Varian’s actions have lead to keeping everyone alive. And by your definition “saved” everyone.
Thrall because if he didnt kill Deathwing the End Times would have occured.
Varian because if he didnt stop the war during MoP, we would all be too weak to deal with the Legion. Even if you disregard that it was Varian who lead the Alliance to victory against the Horde, potentially stopping Garrosh’s genocide in its tracks(The Blank Scroll shows us if we continued the way we did Garrosh would end up causing Azeroth’s destruction)
Most likely. Luckly, even WoW has never operated on the if you did alot of good before(Helya, Daelin) that means you shouldn’t face the consequences for the horrible things you do after.
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I’ve been tracking and discussing Sylvanas “saved” record way before Teldrassil was a gleam and Saurfang and Sylvanas eye. I find it very interesting that she has saved so many people.
This^^
I can see how Thrall’s direct involvement saved Azeroth
This is not sitting well with me, maybe because it doesn’t have a lot of umpfh. I prefer instances were he showed up and courageously saved someone, like his broken shore actions and Jaina’s actions at the Battle of Lordaeron.
I prefer instances like when Sylvanas strong armed Vol’jin to safety or when all hope was gone Saurfang looked up and saw Sylvanas saving his life. Those are invigorating and some fist pumping moments.
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This is my personal favorite moment of Sylvie-kun protecting us :3
Excitement began to stir in Sylvanas, and she graced the apothecary with a rare and still beautiful smile. “That pleases me greatly,” she said. The undead doctor fairly quivered in delight. He beckoned to his assistant Keever, a Forsaken whose brain had obviously been damaged by his first death and who muttered to himself in the third person as he removed two test subjects. One was a human woman, who was apparently not so lost in fear and despair as not to start weeping silently when Keever dragged her from her cage. The Forsaken male, however, was utterly impassive and stood quietly. Sylvanas eyed him.
“Criminal?”
“Of course, my lady.” She wondered if it were true. But in the end, it didn’t matter. He would serve the Forsaken, even so. The human girl was on her knees. Keever stooped down, yanked her head up by her hair, and when she opened her mouth to cry out in pain, he poured a cup of something down her throat and covered her mouth, forcing her to swallow.
Sylvanas watched while she struggled. Beside her, the Forsaken male accepted the cup that Faranell offered without protest, draining it dry.
It happened quickly. The human girl soon stopped struggling, her body tensing, and then going into paroxysms. Keever let her go, watching almost curiously as blood began to stream from her mouth, nose, eyes, and ears. Sylvanas turned her gaze to the Forsaken. He still regarded her steadily, silently. She began to frown.
“Perhaps this is not as effective as your—”
The Forsaken shuddered. He struggled to stand erect for a moment longer, but his rapidly weakening body betrayed him and he stumbled, falling hard. Everyone stepped back. Sylvanas watched raptly, her lips parted in excitement.
“The same strain?” she asked Faranell. The human female whimpered once and then was still, her eyes open. The alchemist nodded happily.
“Indeed it is,” he said. “As you can imagine, we are quite—”
The undead spasmed, his skin breaking open in spots and weeping black ichor, and then he, too, was still.
“—pleased with the results.”
“Indeed,” Sylvanas said. She was hard put to conceal her own elation; “pleased” was a pale word indeed.
Runner up!
Sylvanas Windrunner: Soldiers of the Horde! Attack!
The soldiers charge. All die a gruesome death against a powerful necromancer.
Sylvanas Windrunner: Pathetic weaklings.
I love it. Without Varian we’d all be dead. What a hero 
No offense but that has to be the worst attempt at trolling I’ve ever seen. 0/10
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One of my favorite moments of Sylvanas trying to save lives was the War of Thorns. Oi vey, did she try! But she would not be harkened to.
The Horde soldiers were facing Malfurion and his wisps, ready to strike.
She pleaded with the soldiers of the Horde to listen to their Warchief!
Perhaps Orcs will truly never respect a non-Orc Warchief. Or a Female Warchief.
In either case, the Horde soldiers ignored Sylvanas, and paid with their lives.
If only the denizens of Azeroth would listen, they would not have to die!
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From you and in this thread? Absolutely none taken.
Thanks, and in the future try using some recent material. You went allllllllllllll the way back to WotLK, as if Sylvanas is short on material. Your Varian comment could use a little work too, maybe if you don’t make your trolling look so obvious.