Master Loot the Problem and a Solution

Community General Discussion
21

Loot council and nepotism and drama llamas and egirls don’t disappear if you allow ML back. So what if some try-hards are ‘forced’ by their own silliness to do stupid split runs? The only people that do this are try-hards. It impacts nobody outside of their irrelevant little bubble.

Also gotta remember that during the earlier on gearing process, most people just run a gorillion keys anyway. They’ll still be doing that in Shadowlands. Can you imagine ML in Shadowlands? Think there’s gatekeeping and tears about RIO now, just wait for Covenants and ML on top of it. That’s going to be a glorious day for these forums. I don’t think anyone is crazy enough to want ML outside of raids though so I’ll just leave that strawman over there for someone else to prop up for lols.

People are going to feel obliged to be in the guilds they’re in and suffer the ML’s whimsy. You can say “oh ho ho ho just leave and join somewhere else lol” as if that’s a reasonable choice. On a populated successful progression-focused Horde server, sure. On a casual lame Alliance server, finding a guild with raid times for you is already hard, especially if you want the right amount of progression. “BUT THAT’S NOT ME AND I DON’T CARE ABOUT FILTHY NOOBS GIT GUD” is the response thrown at people. To them I just think well too bad for you then because PL at the very least makes me mad at RNG rather than the guild.

Again, I understand why you want ML and why you think you are more important and shouldn’t be shackled to things and you should have a choice, those things are all fair and true but lots of people don’t have the option to ‘just join another guild’. Or rather the choice is for them to have to pug, which sucks and with ML sucks even more, to be at the whimsy of a loot council and the GM’s mates deciding if they’ll give them scraps or the new egirl instead or instead just have PL and let you deal with it. Which are they gonna choose? Which is better for them? Because nobody believes that ML is a flawless perfect system and sooner or later you’re gonna have to face that fact.

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22

Interestingly enough it’s insinuated that Titanforging removal is the Master Loot compromise in a recent interview, so these threads are currently all harmless fantasy.

The thought process was that without a variation in item levels the ability to trade personal loot kicks in much faster for everyone, and that they had so many Abuse reports about Master Loot through it’s history that they’d rather try literally anything else first.

23

They may. I keep reading various reasons for wanting ML but not really seeing any that make much sense. It just seems like some people with power trips who no longer have the ability to hoard gear for their inner clique can no longer do so.

Fairness is so unfair!

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24

Oh man this is a lot to unpack.

Let me just preface my rebuttal with I’m not here to attack you, I think you mean well for the playerbase as a whole and I respect that.

No it doesn’t, these things are a constant in all games with a competitive scene.

The only people that will use ML in “abusive” ways are these same people, a very tiny minority of people within the percent that push CE, KSM, etc.

Yep.

These people who gatekeep on these factors have every right to, demonizing these people doesn’t fix anything.

Me either, with so little loot that drops in other content spheres in Shadowlands it only makes sense to keep it a raid loot option for guild groups.

Completely their own choice.

This is the best way to free yourself from the injustice of the ML guild you’re in. It also teaches the raid leader a lesson in if enough people run a mutiny and jump ship, then they are shown their error.

Yes it can be difficult but this is not a reason to deny the reintegration of ML. This is another constant that exists regardless of loot options.

It does, but it is also breeds resentment towards PL for the people who worked to put the group together and lead people to learn mechanics and down a boss to see underperformers be rewarded over those who perform.

This is one of the rare instances where this does not compare to real life’s “just find another job.”

There are plenty of guilds that want people to raid with them, some more fairer than others. It doesn’t seem you grasp the real wishes of people who wants ML back.

This again happens in a very tiny minority of guilds, especially bigger guilds. The guild environment varies between guilds, just find the one that’s right for you or make your own guild.

Nobody believes PL is a perfect flawless system either. But I dont want to be forced to use a system I think takes the value out of raid leading and putting in work.

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25

I’m fine with ML if the raid group is composed of 100% guild members. Otherwise, I’d never support it and I’d hope it stays dead.

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26

Titanforging is trash and corruption is trash these are not mutually exclusive, also blizz were the ones who put in that craptastic system not the dreaded “hardcore”

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27

Correct.

This game should be welcoming not one barbed experience after another.

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28

Half the gear I got this tier was literally equipped so that if I got it again I could trade it and then went into the bank. Secondary stats matter so does the stupid system of corruption to the point I scrapped 475 pieces that would be a massive upgrade for others but were garbage for me. Why did I do this? Because I had 465s or 470s and due to that the game decided I couldn’t trade away my garbage 475 drops.

29

I’m happy with PL.

Sure, it’s clunky when you’re awarded a garbage item that just happens to have a higher ilevel, and find yourself unable to give it away.

But with that clunkiness, comes the warm feeling of security; knowing no one can compel you to trade away something you do actually need.

:cake:

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30

Until you are wearing that trash 475 and a good one for that slot drops and it’s a bigger upgrade for someone else. PL causes way more drama because you have to trade the item out of your inventory where before it wouldn’t have ever been in your inventory.

31

I believe that’s part of the clunkiness I was referring to…

:cake:

32

Yes, they DID have choices, it’s called free will. They chose to stay in that guild so they chose to keep getting screwed over. Nobody held a gun to their head and said “YoU hAvE tO sTaY wHeThEr YoU lIkE iT oR nOt!!!” ( see, i can to that too…)

The fact of the matter is that if you stay in a guild that funnels loot to certain people, it isn’t a good guild and it won’t get very far because they aren’t equipping their team to be able to get down the next boss on the list. It is a lose/lose situation because they are making things more difficult for themselves. Do you really want to be in a guild like that?

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33

People don’t seem to understand this, they think they have to draw a line in the sand (and then proceed to stomp their feet on the ground like a 5 year old that doesn’t get their way.)

34

Also they can give guilds the choice to use PL as well. This way PUGs will always be PL, more casual guilds will be able to use PL and will probably get more players, and the guilds that want to push content and hand the gear out as they please can opt for ML.

Seems like a pretty fine idea to me.

35

No, it won’t. Here’s how we used Master Loot:

We did loot by consensus. The people who could use the item talked it over and figured out among themselves whom it was best for.

Cloth boots drop, for example, and the Mages/Warlocks/Priests quickly compare notes and agree on whom it should go to.

Then the master looter (that was me) looted it to that person.

Where was the abuse in that system?

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36

I went through several guilds and never saw them abuse the different systems to favor friends.

Those who complain about such systems are generally the most irresponsible people.

Losing points for being late, having no pre-pot or food, etc.

The real solution is the return of the ML.
And if someone doesn’t trust the guild officials then they should leave the guild and start their own.

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37

Yes they did. Everyone has a choice in what guild to join. Asking a simple question like “What loot distribution method do you guys use?” would give them all the info they needed to walk away if the guild they were looking at used LC. No one is forced into any guild, nor are they trapped there if things change direction in a way they don’t like such as switching to a LC after using something else.

Friends/Family are always friends/family regardless of whether or not they are in the same guild. Often being in different guilds is better.

Personally, I always liked LC. When I was a GL/RL we used it from Wrath until PL started (okay…we used DKP for about a year in Wrath then switched). We had all of one person leave the guild over “loot drama” in all those years and that was due to the person thinking we should be less fair to PUGs and basically never give them anything.

LCs were never any different than any other loot system, and often were more fair than the points systems used. I’ve always found that people who disliked councils never really gave them a chance or made assumptions based on a few bad apples rather than the whole of guilds who used them.

The “solution” would be to eliminate the ridiculous restrictions on trades, especially since iLvl is so often not the factor that determines upgrade. That one simple thing would fix most issues even in guild groups.

I don’t really dislike PL as a system, I was actually not unhappy at all when it was implemented since it freed up so much time in raids wasted on loot distribution. I do, however, dislike the restrictions it has because getting a drop that I can’t use and not being able to trade it to someone who needs it, possibly someone who’s been waiting on it for weeks, because “5 ilvl higher than what I have” is super disheartening. #feelsbadman

38

If your GL is holding you hostage, blink twice.

Nobody is asking for ML back for pugs. (Well nobody reasonable)

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39

Couple things. First, yes… It is a rare occurrence… Been raiding since TBC and only ever seen it abused twice in all those years… Those guilds promptly died right after.

Second, I didn’t realize that someone with a gun was standing next to someone making them play in groups with Masterloot on. Prolly should get the police involved in those cases… Taking away others freedom because others lack self control is a really stupid thing to do…

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40

Your anecdotes do not quantify whether something is rare or not.

I’ve only met 1 person in my life named Muhammad. That does not mean it’s a rare name since it’s the most common name on Earth.

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