Ofc your and my opinions will differ, I have a group to run keys, however I didn’t at one point and I still pugged keys as a fistweaver, it’s a lot more fun in keys also which is just a bonus.
I think a lot of MW don’t realize how strong EM is. Many of the very top parses for M+, regardless if it’s Tear legendary or Ancient Teachings legendary, are making heavy use of EM. On my best parses where I don’t have to drink very often at all (especially with Prideful), it accounts for the majority of my healing done in those runs.
If you’re prioritizing casting Renewing Mist and Enveloping Mist and consistently extending with RSK, and fishing for RSK resets with Blackout kicks, even without Tear legendary, EM becomes wildly efficient and I think it’s because of Rising Mist talent the most. That talent is extremely important to making EM viable and helping mana. I don’t have to cast Vivify nearly as often as I used to before this adjustment, but then again I’m only running 10-12 right now. I do exclusively PUG these keys though so people absolutely do stand in things often and miss interrupts even more often.
Point being, Vivify used to be my top heals every time when I’d be constantly starved for mana. Now it’s not even top 4 most of the time, depending on how much mega big triage is needed. Usually not much with how strong EM is.
With Tear legendary and Rising Mist, EM becomes so big and efficient. With Ancient Teachings and rising mist, you’re already trying hard to get melee in to get ATOM heals in so once again your EMs are often getting double extended from Rising Mist thunder tea recasts and blackout kick resets.
People need to use Enveloping Mist (with Soothing Mist ofc, unless you’re hard casting a fast one after two Chi-Ji kicks) as default where they usually panic spam Vivify. Vivify is the real mana drain because there’s no need to recast Enveloping Mist when EM was just extended by your Rising Sun Kick and still rolling strong. That 40% boost to healing pays off. 40% boost to your renewing mists is nuts. You don’t even have to Vivify on someone at 35-40% health if they aren’t gonna get one shot by a mechanic any time soon. One EM and a renew will do it.
Big group damage, assuming you’re playing well and already have renewing mist on several people, you can get off 3 soothing mist + EM casts, and then thunder focus two rising kicks before they even expire (assuming you run Rising Mist which you absolutely should imo). It’s big big HoTs. Feels like a druid in those cases.
I’m not saying we don’t need buffs, but I am saying a lot of people are burning mana for low heals when they don’t need to be, because they’re scared of the big mana cost attached to EM at first glance. Run Rising Mist and do the above, look at some replays on Warcraft Logs for top MW parses on M+, look at the people whose majority healing is coming from EM, and see how it works out when you give it a shot.
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It definitely helps quite a bit. We’re able to make our own groups for M+. So the fact that we both play “subpar” classes doesn’t affect our ability to get into groups.
Yea, and even the alternative of trying to get into other groups, I still get quick invites most of the time but I do make a point to not apply to groups where the group leader is much higher io score than me, otherwise they’ll just wait it out for a different healer class. If I stick to joining groups around the same io or lower, I almost always get an invite.
Even so yeah, just running your own keys works very well. Although not as well as tanking lol.
Should also note that the Ancient Teachings legendary also benefits from Enveloping Mists heal bonus. I tested this out the other day. Now if they would just make it a smart heal it would be fantastic!
Fistweaving can help if you’re good at it, but truth be told, it doesn’t help al that much. It’s just a little bit better, but not on the same level as everyone else. So don’t feel bad.
In premade groups MW can do +15 but we may have to stop and drink more often than other healers. In pugs is were it shows our weakness. There is a lot more damage going out group wise when people stand in stupid. If one person is taking heavy damage, MW has no problem healing them. Whole group taking unexpected heavy damage you have 2 choices: Revival or Yu’lon/Chi 'Ji. Spires on last boss and people have a lot of stacks of the dot Revival is a god send. Yu’lon combined with Mana Tea you can heal the group back up without blowing all your mana. After that 10 seconds and no CDs you will run oom so fast just because of Vivify and Enveloping Mist. AtotM is good but when playing with a tank I do not know, it is just too risky. I know have a DPS and a Tank always to do keys so its not that bad, but I still run into mana issues when there is prolonged aoe damage. I have Tear of Morning now which has made it better healing wise but there is still mana issues. Clouded Focus imho is a waste of legendary for anyone who has played MW before. The fact it drops the stacks immediately and you can not refresh the duration is asinine. There is so much going against using Soothing Mist and that’s not even including it is on the GCD.
I find if I use EF, Weapons of Order, then EF again I can usually handle unexpected group damage. Follow those with some Vivifies and another EF when it’s up usually keeps ppl relatively healthy without consuming too much mana. Alternating Weapons of Order, Chi-ji, and Revival for oh crap moments of group healing is pretty efficient-ish. Using Mana Tea on cool down is almost required at this point. I agree with those saying Mana Tea should be baseline and a new mana saving/return talent should be in that line.
If Blizzard isn’t gonna help us out we will have to hope we improve as we scale through the expansion. We usually do but by that time the stigma may be too hard to over come.
If you are referring to keys it doesnt “help a little bit” if you are referring to raid the point is the same. If Anyone playing MW in pve learned Fistweaving for keys and raid they would probably feel a lot better about the spec. It helps both with mana and healing.
Using yu lon is your issue. Chi ji is the better choice for keys by far, it’s a mana neutral cd that does a pretty decent amount of healing in 5 man content.
It isn’t game changing, the spec needs help.
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I don’t disagree, but if you are struggling with what the spec primarily needs help with(mana) it would be pretty big if you learn to play fistweaving, because it isn’t nearly as mana starved.
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I love fistweaving, I used my first leggo on getting the bracers, the main problem I have with fistweaving is all the stupid damage that goes out, when people are standing in stuff there is no reaction fast enough ( tea on cd, 1 charge of tiger palm, rsk on cd) with fistweaving to top them off and I am forced to sooth/viv spam, I might add I am a night fae so I don’t really have that extra cooldown that comes from my covenant. In a good group with good players, I can totally fistweave, but as it stands, fistweaving is too dangerous in the pug world imo.
He is just nitpicking. Fistweaving shouldn’t be as intensive as it is. No other class has to do as much work for so little return.
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I think the issue is that we shouldn’t be forced to have only 1 cookie cutter spec in order to be viable. Holy priests can mess around a lot with their talents for context just as druids are able to. Shammies are way overtuned still.
Also, fistweaving playstyle doesn’t solve real balance issues. MW is doing WAY less healing in mythic CN than other healers. And this is with ppl running both ToM and AToTM in different fights. It just doesn’t change that we overall need more balancing relative to other healing specs that are broken OP rn like resto shammies and SS disc priests.
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I said earlier, the math totally works for fistweave/tear but when it comes to mana conservation/those pesky oh s*** moments, imo they are lacking. This is why I run clouded, I actually don’t have to drink as much and the nice boost to viv helps in AOE situations, I don’t really understand what this whole ‘when soothing drops the buff drops’ issue is. fact is, we are pretty much always channeling soothing in this spec, so maybe it drops to 15% from 45% but it still feels nice at 15% and saves me a chunk of mana.
Unless you are burst healing a single target on the verge of death you shouldn’t be using soothing+vivify to heal. It’s better to just hard cast a vivify, both for your gcds and mana.
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Wait, did I miss something? Is soothing un-viable to hard cast?
It’s best to use soothing in burst single target healing. Other than that it’s better to hard cast vivify, especially if the target you’re healing only needs one or two. Same with enveloping mists. That’s the way it’s been since the GCD changes in BfA, at least that’s what I’ve experienced and read from others experiences.
Ohhhhh, That actually doesn’t apply to me because we play two different leggos, my viv only costs 1k mana. I’m probably behind overall in hps but not mana conservation.