Malefic Rapture isn't going anywhere (and it shouldn't)

[Noinnuendo-hyjal (Noinnuendo)]

You’re bad faith, you are selectively quoting my words, and you are not engaging with my points.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Noinnuendo-hyjal

You’re bad faith

Literally everything you are doing.

@Noinnuendo-hyjal

you are selectively quoting my words, and you are not engaging with my points.

I literally countered your points. just because you dont understand them doesnt make them not engaged.

[Ravengloam-stormrage]

I agree. People should quit wanting things to be like they were 10 years ago. Spamming UA was fun in PvP in Legion though, and the artifact spell was also very nice. I can’t say I think MR is the best Affliction spell ever, but I don’t hate it. I think it needs to change though, someway, it feels like Affliction always have soul shards to spam MR.

[Ravengloam-stormrage]

I mean, we have Unholy DK, which has a very outdated playstyle, having to press 4 bursts before starting to do something just isn’t fun anymore, no other class does this, and this is a clear disadvantage for them. Is the spec performing well at the moment? Iirc not so much, but it did in Shadowlands and BFA, very recent expansions. I don’t think Legion/MoP Affliction was any worse or outdated as Unholy DK is nowadays. I think Legion/MoP Affliction would still perform well in Dragonflight, perhaps not as good as it does now, but it wouldn’t be a dead spec. It’s not like WoW is a complete different game than it was in Legion.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Fabul-thrall

ok so your saying that shadow is a dot spec and agreeing with Spaceraven. Cool, wonderful to hear that. something we can agree on at last.

No. I’m saying shadow is not a dot spec.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Fabul-thrall

So what Noinnuendo is saying is that before someone uses MR you must spend time setting up all the aforementioned things. That takes time. And as you said many times Snozex BURST/MR is required because dots don’t work because they take “TIME”.
Funny how the setup up for MR takes “TIME”

What neither of you seem to comprehend is that MR adds burst. It doesn’t make it a burst spec. And yes you need some burst to play at higher end. I’m not sure how y’all can’t seem to understand this.

@Fabul-thrall

WAIT Wait wait… you just said it does not take time (10 sec) to setup only to then follow that later with…

You are taking things out of context which isn’t surprising because you can’t actually refute anything.

@Fabul-thrall

One thing completely contradicts the other.

What you’re not understanding is they aren’t contractions.

Throwing up dots is a flat damage profile. There isn’t any burst at all.

MR adds small burst windows but that doesn’t mean it magically. Becomes a burst spec.

There’s a difference between a burst spec and a spec that has small burst windows.

@Fabul-thrall

Your moving the goalpost again Snozex. You say one thing, your own words contradict it, and then change the “issue” later on to fit your narrative.

I haven’t moved the goalposts at all.

You and Noinuendo have proven isnuiu can’t comprehend what a damage profile
is or that a spec having MR windows gives it burst but doesn’t magically make it a burst spec.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Fabul-thrall

in your own words you conceded affliction is a ramp spec, requires setup, and even after the setup requires up an addition 7.5 sec, to which Noinnuendo pointed out is the hard casting of MR with soul shards

I said no such thing.

Aff has always been a a sustained damage profile with dots. What MR brings is a burst window not that profile. I never said it’s a pure burst spec.

Nor did I say anything about 7.5 seconds. That’s all innuendos made up numbers.

@Fabul-thrall

so were already looking at least 10 sec in BEFORE your claimed MR burst comes in but could be as far out as 17.5 sec before they finish “bursting” everything they have at that 1 target, let alone if there are multiple there after.

You’re clearly not comprehending what I am saying.

@Fabul-thrall

According to your own words dot spec don’t work because they require time, but apparently 10+ sec to setup and get into casting MR is acceptable??? but a dot that would be 4-8 sec of damage is not acceptable if it takes the same amount of time without the required setup???

Again no. I said a flat damage profile with dots and a single filler isn’t viable.

You’re giving me Forrest Whittaker eye because of out of context you are.

[Hugeweenis-illidan]

So burst is required…
dots don’t work because they take time…
MR is burst…
MR requires time to setup…
but your not playing affliction for instant/burst damage…
but burst is required…
and MR is burst…
but MR requires time to setup…
so then MR should not work/apply because it takes time…

Alright, gotta jump in here because you think you’re finding a “Gotcha” for Snozex when you’re really not. Malefic Rapture deals a large amount of damage immediately. This is why it’s referred to as burst.
Yes, it does take set up time, and yes that set up time does limit the effectiveness of swaps. However, Rapture does technically have this ability where as a DoT spender does not.
Blizzard can, and is, altering the ramp time by simply removing some of the set up. This should make sense.
It should also make sense that not every spec in the game has to excel at something, and we don’t need Affliction to be great at swaps to prio targets, but it IS important and the tools exist to make it a little bit closer to the mean.

[Ravengloam-stormrage]

Very well said.

[Woeful-aerie-peak]

If nothing changes with the core design and rotation of the spec, it will remain dead, regardless of whether its viability is improved. It will remain a niche spec reserved for a handful of situations and encounters where it would be foolish not to use it. I’m not sure anyone is even arguing that they enjoy playing it, but seem to be arguing that is HAS to be awful to play or it wont be viable.

[Rokin-sargeras]

My concern is their ability to balance MR for for all of ST/cleave/AOE. Remember, MR was similarly intended to be our only spender back when it was introduced in SL alpha, but their struggles to balance it is what eventually led to the current setup of using MR for ST/2-3 targets and Seed for 4+ targets. Perhaps the DF talent trees and hero talents provide the tools to better do so?

[Pepino-frostmourne (Pepino)]

MR ain’t definitely going no where anytime soon,

War Within Alpha Development Notes Build #3 - Arcane Mage and Demonology...

It’s being doubled down on immensely, so it’s something that if you hate it, co exist with it or literally try another spec .

Literally removed ID for more MR damage and quicker casting.

[Rokin-sargeras]

@Pepino-frostmourne

MR ain’t definitely going no where anytime soon,

https://www.wowhead.com/news/war-within-alpha-development-notes-build-3-arcane-mage-and-demonology-warlock-339170

It’s being doubled down on immensely, so it’s something that if you hate it, co exist with it or literally try another spec .

Literally removed ID for more MR damage and quicker casting.

Indeed. For now, it’s for the best to focus on making this the best MR version of affliction possible, rather than unproductively dwelling on alternatives(though players should still voice their opinions on that later). Though, I think their struggles to similarly balance it as the do it all spender in the past are notable.

What does the reduced casting time bring MR down to? 0.3-0.4 somewhere around there? For such a short cast time, I wonder if 20% is really that noticeable

[Caesimir-zuljin]

A spell that requires build up until it can do its direct damage is functionally a dot. If Unstable Affliction takes 6 seconds before it deals all its damage it is fundamentally the same thing as a direct damage spell that requires 6 seconds to set up in a damage per second world. It is by all definitions not burst.

[Resinger-area-52]

@Hugeweenis-illidan

Yes, it does take set up time, and yes that set up time does limit the effectiveness of swaps. However, Rapture does technically have this ability where as a DoT spender does not.

If rapture takes 5 seconds to set up for it to do damage, and UA as a spender takes 5 seconds to deal its damage, they are functionally identical in terms of “burst” profile lmao

[Resinger-area-52]

Also the fact that people keep saying dot and rot specs dont work in m+, and then in the same sentence tell you to play priest which is just a better dot class than aff and does better damage than aff in keys is laughably stupid

[Nespheok-area-52]

agreed. affliction worked wonderfully in Legion whilst having a dot spender… easily topped the meters (single target or Aoe) in high keys back then, not to mention it was fun.

When they first butchered affli in BFA i didn’t think it could get any worse. Now with MR, yap it could be worse T-T

Then again my problem with rapture isn’t that it’s not a dot. It’s the disheartening build up + maintenance for small returns. ( i was trying to keep hopes up for tuning, but seeing that it’s now both our aoe and ST spender… i’m doubtful)

[Prtwentyfore-tichondrius]

@Kalrock-azgalor

I might get crucified for this post

What you need to do is stop writing a book thinking people will read it

[Snozex-area-52]

@Caesimir-zuljin

A spell that requires build up until it can do its direct damage is functionally a dot. If Unstable Affliction takes 6 seconds before it deals all its damage it is fundamentally the same thing as a direct damage spell that requires 6 seconds to set up in a damage per second world. It is by all definitions not burst.

You dont know what a dot is. MR is an instant cast damage ability that adds burst.

You really dont know what you are talking about and it shows.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Resinger-area-52

Also the fact that people keep saying dot and rot specs dont work in m+, and then in the same sentence tell you to play priest which is just a better dot class than aff and does better damage than aff in keys is laughably stupid

Whats really stupid is people like yourself that say the above ^ when 80% of shadow priest damage doesnt have anything to do with dots.

I suggest learning how shadow works so that you dont embarrass yourself