#MakeItPermanent

Might be the intent, but doesn’t work in practice. Just divides to cummunity even more. A Necrolord warlock will be infinitely stronger in all content than Night Fae warlock unless Soul Rot receives a huge revamp. That’s only one example of one class.

Oh yeah it’s gonna fail hard and result in an even tighter meta now that there’s a extra filter.

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Which is why it’s highly doubtful that they’ll suddenly do anything different with covenants. We’ll go through the expansion and the overall storyline will be the same no matter which covenant you pick.

Gear was replaced by better gear and tier sets were nowhere near as powerful as things like artifact weapons, azerite traits, essences, or corruptions.

We’re also losing azerite traits and essences.

And a Zandalari one, at that

But he has a point; if they’re so determined to force this system on us without switching, why not have it stick?

If the “meaningful choice” thing really matters, make it matter the entire expansion.

Either double down, or back it the hell up.

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doubtful sure but Blizzard despite the terrible reputation they have now are known for fixing a lot of mistakes on their games… reaper of souls was known for fixing a lot of issues with Diablo 3, Ion admitted that the selfie patch shouldn’t be called a patch, and we had better paced content in Legion, and I don’t really play other Blizzard games :stuck_out_tongue: I don’t think we’d be playing and paying to play a game we hate and have no faith whatsoever, I really can’t imagine someone having 0 faith in Blizzard to make a good choice and giving them money, like, imagine simping for a company, lol
again, I think Blizzard will eventually add more quests for covenants and we’ll learn more and more from them
who knows, maybe if we stick with the Venthyr we’ll know if the san’layn will join the horde eventually, or more about Kael, or someone, there are a lot of important characters in these covenants, I doubt they do nothing with them

eh, some tier sets were amazing and very powerful, too, and interesting aswell, some had really fun effects too…sure they might have not been as powerful, but they even changed your playstyle a bit, unlike essences or corruption, imo.

haven’t checked all classes but arent’ UH death knights keeping the chains that tie you to your ghoul? idk, I never found passive effects to be that fun… infinite stars is " sometimes, you target for some reason a starfall on your enemy "
and uh, " sometimes you rupture your target for bleed damage "
they’re not even themed to suit your class, why would me, a frost death knight, make my enemy bleed? isn’t that a rogue thing? why would I have a star dropping on my enemy for arcane damage? isn’t that a druid thing?
at least with the covenants it makes a bit more sense, if I join the night fae, they’ll " teach me " how to do this, I wont just get it from a random drop…
and essence was pretty much the same, yeah the laser beam was pretty cool ngl but the rest? " you do x% of fire damage "
do you like this? or would you rather have a badass ice dragon spit ice from the sky and freeze your enemies? what would you keep if you had to pick one?

That is mechanically impossible. The issues right now are not numbers tuning but rather core mechanical issues with the abilities. It’s literally impossible to balance and pull them into that range without just making them different flavored clones of each other.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/covenants-and-your-spec-a-survey/616438?u=jessail-terenas

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You aren’t serious right.

Blizz wants to do it one way.
Some people want it another.

There by defacto they are on an opposing side.

/shrug

I agree. Just as long as gameplay choices are independent of covenant choice.

Covenants shouldn’t affect gameplay in any way.

What are your reasons this should not be so?

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Aesthetics being locked to gameplay beyond class choice/fantasy is not fun. One covenant may have my preferred story/aesthetic and be the one my character would support, but may not have gameplay I enjoy. One may have gameplay I enjoy, but an aesthetic/story I dislike and wouldn’t make sense for my character to join. Not to mention making covenants easily swappable makes them basically worthless in the “meaningful choice” way.

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So just to clarify, your character has feelings about the covenants, and has expressed to you, which it prefers?

This is an rpg. That sounds like a pretty stupid question considering.

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Yeah pretty ignorant question in attempt to ridicule you rather than articulating a valid point - likely because he does not have one

I have no attachment to my characters at all. They are simply paper dolls to me. I don’t transmog at all either. I just rock whatever I pick up.

So the question is not stupid to me at all. I’m rather fascinated.

Trying to defend a system that is supposed to be the redemption for the RPG part of WoW by mocking the very definition of RPG.

Simply briliant.

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Oh I think RPG is a loaded term that has all sorts of meanings to all sorts of people. To me, an rpg just means that there is progressive functional choices to be made. Actual roleplaying … like D&D type stuff, is completely alien to me. I’ve never played dress up, with my character or my personality.

Of course. It doesn’t have a clear definition. But you are mocking what the abbreviation itself means. Role-playing game.

I am very much on the same boat as you when it comes to the literal role-playing thing, but I can at least unserstand it and accept that it’s what other people can enjoy without feeling the need to ridicule it. And that’s why I am against abilities being tied to covenants in their current state, because it also limits that RP potential on top of other issues.

What your idea of RPG is, is completely irrelevant.

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It’s a big wide world, when someone starts telling me that their character has preferences, and refers to them as real people. I don’t feel it’s mocking to have a few questions to ascertain just what i’m dealing with.

I think there are varying levels here. While no doubt there are people who might have entire books worth of backstory for their favorite character, there are also plenty who just want their character to look the part for its role. Warriors or paladins using stormwind guard armor, death knights who use icy weapons, rogues with masks could all be examples of this. Its just another way to immerse oneself in the game. Regardless I don’t think its any less of a valid way to the play the game.

Is it so strange that people want their character to fit a chosen role in a role playing game?

So you are doubling down to make a choice which in its current iteration is flawed and having more concerns going forward because it is tied to player power to be permanent is not going to work out at all and even though they tried to make it easily swappable if its not the same covenant its still aint it as your set back in progression its still not working out how Blizzard want it to be to say this to you.

If the choice is permanent and it has no player power tied to it than we would be fine and Shadowlands is saved.