Mythic Raids aren’t designed to be puggable in the same way that Normal/Heroic is for two main reasons.
The lockout: No one wants to join a Mythic raid in progress that already has bosses down because it locks them from potentially killing those bosses that week regardless if they kill a boss with that group or not.
The mechanics: Pugs don’t have the time to learn and wipe on progression for hours and unless they get a fully stacked team there will be a wall where the group simply won’t be able to go any further because once they start losing people it loops back to reason number one.
Even if the lockout was made less restrictive which would solve some of the trouble for pugging, clearing the raid on mythic in a pug is likely not going to be possible for a vast majority of pugs.
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Unfortunately, Blizz is refusing to change lockouts to allow us to test your “theory” (30 minutes in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKRGkzSIFkE&t=0s). Personally, as someone who again has made it to second to last or actual last boss of multiple Mythic raids, I can say with confidence that I would much rather be able to easily replace people with better ones, just like you can for heroic/normal raids. Also, for those of you who keep trying to make the conversation about loot, personally, loot could be slightly faster, the bullion system is actually a solid addition that they really should carry forward for every tier, as well as the ability to get two sockets each week you opt for sockets instead of gear from the vault. Other than that, lowering the amount of M+ dungeons necessary each week from 8 to 6, just like raids, would also be a much welcomed change, since again, 8 M+ dungeons EVERY week feels like a lot, especially when there are only 8 M+ dungeons even available.
With how much loot and crests you get from m+, they should just remove the lockout on normal/heroic. You are fully heroic geared either way by week 2, at least we should be able to spam raids instead of m+.
They would just do the same things they do now, just enough of the early bosses to get a vault slot (maybe 2 if it’s amirdrassil)
But this also sidesteps the point that mythic raid is not supposed to cater to being pugged. It’s supposed to be the domain of organized teams.
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I also believe the vault system is a major contribution to burn out, is just a chore having to do m+ week after week, when you dont get anything from them anymore beside a chance for an upgrade next week.
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I think the problem there is how frontloaded M+ makes gearing.
Smoothing out the gear curve (so you get meaningful and noticeable upgrades for longer) would probably help.
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I dont know about you, but I’m fine being “done” with a character, with the vault system you are never truly done and you have to keep spamming dungeons when you dont get anything from them.
The vault and crest system are just another way to keep people playing, they serve the same purpose as the old borrowed power from Legion and BFA.
I think being done with a character is fine, but I think we hit that point too fast from start of season.
I don’t think that you should have gained 85-90% of the ilvl that is possible to gain in the 1st 15% of the season.
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That’s why Mythic guilds have raid rosters larger than 20. Sometimes people get benched, sometimes people can’t make it and a reserve needs to be pulled in. In Normal/Heroic you can cut all the fat you want until you start getting down to 8-10 players or pull in a random person to fill the spot, it is many times easier to replace them in Normal/Heroic because the boss-based lockout doesn’t hold a person to be only allowed to run with one group, one team for the entire week like the Mythic lockout does.
Still, it does not change the fact that Mythic raids are not designed to be pugged, the fixed 20 man raid size, the restrictive lockout, and the mechanics that will take some groups anywhere between 10 and 500 wipes to learn and execute properly, unless it was farm content for all the players involved, it wouldn’t be cleared in a pug.
You do have to play a lot the first couple of weeks, but the reality is that being heroic geared is just the new base.
Is after that when the real gearing up begins, if you raid mythic you get 1-2 items from killing bosses, 1 craft every other week, slowly upgrading your heroic/mythic gear and your item from the vault.
3 out of 4 you do by farming m+ and doing brain dead content for 4-5 hours every week, that is my issue with the current gearing system.
That’s what I’m saying the problem is. Getting to full heroic raid gear should be part of the journey of the patch, not a cover charge to participate.
That would be interesting, but they would have to revamp the whole gearing system to make that happen. It would be weird for mythic raids, especially for early bosses.
“Mythic raids are not designed to be pugged”
Really? How come I can reliably pug them then? My complaint is that I can’t pug them even more, simply because Mythic raids have lockouts/ID’s and normal/heroic raids don’t.
Even if you happen to be in a guild where you reliably have a full roster, being able to replace people who refuse to do certain things is INVALUABLE, and I’m sorry, for whatever reason, guild rankings, social drama, seniority, whatever bs you can think of, guilds suck compared to pugs on that front, by far, trust me, I’ve tried several of both, and pugs are just better, hands down, and that’s WITH pugs technically being artificially gimped even moreso than guilds by these unecessary, vestigial, idiotic, however you want to describe them, lockouts/ID’s.
Define ‘reliably pugging’ because it sounds like you haven’t actually done them when they were current.
And yes, being able to replace people who don’t/can’t do certain things is invaluable, which is why Mythic raiding guilds keep more than 20 raiders on their roster. I’m aware that you probably don’t like guilds, I’ve been in a few (some good, some bad) and I will take a good guild over pugging any day. Pugged Mythic in Dragonflight would get you about 2 bosses, maybe 4, but in the same time with a consistent group, you’d be looking at faster and more consistent kills without worrying about filling the group.
Pugging farm content is a lot different than pugging progression, but as someone who pugged a few Mythic bosses, then went along to go into progression with a guild, Mythic raiding is not designed to be pugged unless the people you are pulling in to pug it have all the content on farm, which at that point? Good luck.
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You can already replace people if they suck.
Someone has internet issues, have someone sub in. Someone severely underperforms, have someone come in, instead.
You can’t easily replace a large portion of the guild though if they decide to do stupid things like not farm the Maw for sockets, or worse, quit retail entirely to go play whatever version of Classic/MoP Remix just released. Seriously, what if roughly 3-4 weeks into a tier, you thought you had a solid team you know, great players, right classes, everything, and boom, nine or more of them are just gone for the silliest flavor of the month bs imaginable. That sht’s happened at least twice.
Then sounds like a new guild is in order.
I’ve been through a few that would raid for a week or two then stop, or mindlessly flail against a wall they can’t get past until burnout and low morale causes a lot of them to fade out. Pugging for Mythic hits that same exact problem, there’s no real cohesion or reason to stick around so a lot could just up and vanish making it take even longer to make any progress.
Finding 19 players every night you want to raid in a pug or trying to get 19 of the same more than once per week is already a stretch compared to having a good, cohesive guild. I mean, I found one that survived more than one season this expansion with people that work well together. Main thing is, even with Remix and all the other things going on, the guild raids remain the same, if you want to raid Mythic and your guild doesn’t stick to raiding, maintaining a roster and all that other “fun” stuff, then it’s best to look for a new guild, is what I did.
Blame that on the people who will poop sock things on day one and then throw temper tantrums about there being nothing to do. They consume the content at extreme rates and thus things like that had to be introduced.
It sounds like you’re going to fanboy guilds as hard as you can no matter how many flaws I point out, and I’ve pointed out several, a decent amount of which would be solved by again, making Mythic raid lockouts/ID’s as similar as possible to those of normal/heroic. Seriously, at the end of the day, both guilds and pugs would be way better off if Mythic raids were as similar as possible to normal/heroic as far as lockouts are concerned.
I’m just speaking from experience. Pugging and bad guilds will get about the same distance, regardless of lockouts.
Tell me when you find a pug group that can stick together for 100+ wipes on a single boss. There won’t be enough hours in the day to make progress pugging when you’re replacing members constantly, it just won’t work unless they neuter Mythic raid difficulty to match Normal/Heroic.