Please support this? enough is enough… resto especially
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
MAKE ECHO of the ELEMENTS BASELINE
I support this…
Please support Earth Shock baseline for Enhancement Shamans
Sorry bud, there is no way they’re making the most powerful talent in that row entirely baseline. However, there’s certainly some opportunity for change in how it works.
For resto specifically (since you called it out) I’ve talked about this talent row in a couple other posts you should check out
Check those ideas out and feel free to comment, maybe the devs would be willing to consider some changes like the ones I’ve proposed.
Supported. Make echoes baseline,
It makes the spec feel and play much smoother and better, the other talent options will rarely be taken, again.
making echo baseline and replacing it with something else along with appropriate tuning of the other talents on the row would not make shaman in any way shape or form OP.
It doesn’t matter what they do to surge of earth or deluge, echo of elements will still be mandatory. In those situations they’ve always given consideration to those becoming baseline and introducing a new talent.
I’d love to hear why you feel it’s so mandatory, you’ve made a claim but not given any real rationale for it. I personally feel that it’s very plausible to modify undulation and surge of earth to make them more competitive with Echo. The problem with just saying “make it baseline” is that even if they did that, they’d most likely nerf most of the abilities it impacts to keep balance with other classes, so be careful what you wish for.
And even if they do make it baseline, what’s the new third talent going to be? The only standard heals we haven’t touched with talents if we remove Echo are healing stream/Cloudburst and Riptide, and it would feel awkward to have this row modify something like Mana tide or Healing tide as it’s not at all in line with the other choices.
Realistically, it’s a much smaller ask to just make the dual lava surge baseline, or as i said in my post add damage modifiers to all three items on this tier such as making undulation also increase the damage every third lightning bolt/chain lightning the same way it does healing surge/healing wave and boosting the damage from the earth elemental when you select surge of earth.
I personally love the idea of getting more variety by having 3 different styles of damage increase on this tier, Echo/Lavaburst being the biggest single target increase, Undulation and Chain lightning the best for 2-3 targets, and a quaking earth elemental being substantial damage on a pull when you can use it on 6+ targets. That’s some interesting flavor, instead of just giving me something baseline I’ve already been using for about 2 years.
“I’d love to hear why you feel it’s so mandatory”
I guess you have not noticed the hundreds of pages of shaman feedback over the course of multiple expansions giving the exact same feedback that echo should be baseline?
I suggest you start there instead of trying to make myopic/pedantic arguments.
Priest have proc counters in shadow now for mind-blast. No reason shaman shouldn’t have lavaburst charges for ele/resto. Arguing that a talent is too good to become baseline is the opposite mentality of a game designer. If it’s mandatory, that means it’s core to the spec.
This.
It’s been a thing for a long time, people of diff specs have asked for it since WoD. More so restoration shaman due to how good it feels and how often it was always taken and still is ( you can find articles and forum posts about it if you use google and the search bar at the top 
)
They should have added it as baseline long ago and by now compensated with other nerfs if needed by now, which we wouldnt notice. The problem is blizzard literally ignores shaman Beta/etc feedback.
The spec Just feels and plays better with it. Most people ran the one echoes Talent ring in legion specifically because the spec felt depressingly clunky and slow when it didnt have it and to also get the real talent they wanted in that row, 2 charges of cbt, stream and riptide back then was big too and kinda helped with our spread out healing if you werent a moron with cbt timing and placement, it made questing better with 2 lava bursts.
People asked for it again after legion, and are now again asking for it in beta forums etc now.
People kinda like how the spec flows with Echoes talent, I honestly dont understand how the one person in this thread even has such an issue against it being baseline 
It’s weird.
It’s a huge QoL talent and the other talents will have to be much better for us to want to even take them, and seeing from feedback in ptr stuff they are lacklustre at best, so Echoes wins out again till they buff the heck out of one.
So… I hear echo is too OP to be made baseline. Anyone kind enough to tell me why?
If its pvp… well. Maybe Blizzard should of seperated the pve and pvp templates to balance them differently. So they dont screw over either side.
World pvp? You mean the group with 5-10 people mosh pit we have today? No… I dont think so.
Now how about I tell you a story of an Old Shaman hmm?
Way back in legion… so we shaman got a ring. A legendary ring. Soul of the Farseer. This ring wasnt the best we could have… but it had 1 impressive effect. It gave us echo for free.
Now did this break Resto / ele ? Did it somehow unravel the fabric of time and space? God no. It made the class feel alive… it was so great having earth shield AND echo.
There is no reason it will be OP. None what so ever. If you can prove it to me with your words then do so. I await responses to the contrary.
Until that time , I stand with my fellow shaman and shawomen and chortle Echo their responses to have the talent baseline. When it is mandatory to take it, it no longer deserves to be a talent choice.
They could also redesign Lava Surge to instead of resetting the cooldown of Lava Burst it increases its cooldown recovery by 300% for 3 seconds, similar to how the new hot hand functions, while still making the next cast instant.
This would give us 9 seconds off the Lava Burst cooldown per proc if you time your next cast perfectly, making any lost cooldown time on Lava Burst more a matter of player skill rather than rng.
Downside would be that we wouldn’t get as many chain proc Lava Bursts from multi dotting.
Then have Echo give the current Lava Surge functionality with 2 charges and some kind of throughput increase so its still competitive on the tier, maybe reduced Lava Burst cooldown or Lava Bursts extend the duration of Flame Shock by a little bit.
I have a slight love/hate relationship with Echo as Resto.
On one hand I have 2 riptides.
On the other I personally find the interaction with cloudburst so odd, but can appreciate the large amount of CB uptime I get out of Echo.
That being said Riptide is so lacking compared to other heals, I wish riptide ticks had a chance to grant a stack of riptide like the interaction between Flameshock and Lavaburst
If you hadn’t noticed Shaman are not the best healers. We’re not the worst either, but making this baseline and letting us choose another talent in that row would not break the meta and cause us to take over the game.
Bro I’m sorry but thinking that echo will make the spec OP is the most absurd statement I’ve ever heard.
For ele it is a basic function to make the spec feel decent so that you’re not munching a ton of lava burst procs, and for resto it brings us back to the basic functionality of tidal surge stacks. Riptide only giving one stack plus no echo means that you can only have a tidal surge proc once every 6 seconds which makes the spec feel like trash in m+.
Echo is already part of the reason ele is one shotting people in a string of combos. Making it baseline isn’t the answer unfortunately 
If they do decide to ruin the combo, I mean I’d be all for it being baseline but that depends what they do.
So… what if we received Echo of the Elements baseline, what would people want to see there instead.
I just think it’s maybe more interesting to play with the design space and work forward at this point.
We always ask ourselves, “What are our critical needs?” and #1 is always survival. However it radically diverges from that point forward, and Echo of the Elements is definitely not a survival talent. It is more of a performance smoothing passive talent. It is arguably a combo supporting talent for Elemental and Restoration that promotes ABW- Always Be Weaving.
Alternatives
A part of me is trying to remember what talents could replace Echo of the Elements. It could be a number of things, right, but something that’s on par. I see and have championed a reforming the talent into the baseline, but rarely do we play around with what improvements could be had in the talent slot.
What is Echo of the Elements
For Elemental, this is a talent that provides Lava Burst with a great deal of smoothing, allowing one to sling those meatballs much more often. It’s part of the talent synergy for those who embrace the elements of Flame or Elementlist weaving masters.
What is it NOT
It’s often not taken when players embrace one of the sub-specializations which focus upon huring Lightning Bolts. We’ve seen it fall out of favor in BFA’s late-game because of Lightning Bolt’s scaling and the stacking crit.
Blast from the Past- Examples
Inspiration for ideas can come from multiple sources, and some of the best are probably wholly original ones, but just for the sake of starting, some from tier sets, BFA’s azurite pieces, and others. Many have become talents, even what I would say are rather flawed transitions, like Spiritwalker’s Regalia 4 piece bonus as it became Power Overwhelming. But hey, try and try again, but it’s more important to try to develop something new when given an opportunity.
Potency
Range
Stats
Resources
AoE
Execution
Logging
Excuse you?
The combo has nothing to do with echo 
know how it works before you comment. Just pressing ascend activates the prim wave LvB so you don’t need echo.
But something that has been a mandatory talent for 6 years is the thing making this combo broken during which time ele has been OP like once.
I’d say Lava Shock or Path of Flame
Was about to say the same. Its primordial wave+Ascendance+legendary Helm and a crap load of uncontrolled RNG.
Lava shock and pack spirit had us in the same spot in the beginning of BfA and was nerfed to gimmick yet GPie and CB dmg is A OK
there are literally people who do not want echo to be baseline lol