We had all hunter speccs being fully mobile in past expansion and most of the time only one specc would actually be viable at the time, i think the idea that being fully mobile would be OP is downright false, just look at BM its not a monster DPS specc all the time.
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Of course lol. This isnât the reality of what happens though. For example, I was in battle of Gilneas last night. Alliance side. There was a team fight happening right in front of our gate, where we resurrect. As soon as I would leave the gate, I would have a rogue on me, and a warrior. They were surgically glued to me every single time I resurrected. It didnât matter that my team was there. They were getting rolled too. There wasnât safety anywhere.
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rogue warrior stun death on the MM i know that beating all to well
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Only if they make Chaos Bolt castable on the move
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So thatâs not a mm problem then 
Thats a very wierd prespective to have, there isnt a breadline for changes if you are unhappy with how class works you should ask for that change in their class forum and not say other classes cant have something.
And hunters have had complete free movment in the past without it being op, there was a point where MM hunter had instant aimed shot and they still werent considered op in either PvP nor PvE they only excelled in single target.
The classes are the sum of all their parts making a class more mobile doesnt directly lead to it broken
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If they really didnât want to make it a permanent thing maybe returning aspect of the fox as a big mobility CD for that kind of stuff
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Rember the HFC hunter set
Yeah, something like spirit walkers (shaman) for MM wouldnât be bad. Or bring back something similar to sniper training, where standing still while casting aimed shot buffs it considerably (or rather, an aimed shot casted while moving is nerfed).
I vote to make everything for every class castable while moving. Would really help some specs in mythic.
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Not only did WoD MM lack any non-execute instant single-target damaging shots, the whole spec, including Aimed Shot, was constrained by the spec passive + Mastery, Sniper Training.
That effect prevented you from moving more than once per 6 seconds unless able to spend 3 consecutive seconds in place immediately thereafter, effectively limiting all movement to at most 3 seconds at a time to move without inevitably losing damage (3 seconds later). That meant that you could move only at most 50% of the time, as opposed to the current 79% outside of True Shot.
If that sounds slightly unintuitive and more constrictive, thatâs because it was. Thatâs also why WoD AiS was ultimately replaced with a 2-charge CD so that you spend most of the time fully mobile (instead of being forced into 3s/3s stutter movement) and need only make occasional but deliberate room for your nuke. Itâs more intuitive, has more palpable of gameplay / decision-making, and is actually more mobile.
This can actually be a huge pain for dodging, as one then needs to manually cancel to get out in time. Iâd much rather see itâŠ
- Charge slower while moving, and perhaps deal slightly less damage the longer it takes (e.g., 2s base; 3s while moving, for as low as 75% damage),
- Be constrained by an improved iteration of Sniper Training, or
- Remain as is, such that we retain the skill ceiling of making or taking advantage of room to get off the cast instead of just getting a subtle, non-gameplay-palpable penalty on an otherwise seemingly always hypermobile spec.
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You can give a huge about of text for your point. What I know and how I feel is from playing during that time as a MM hunter. IT WAS A BLAST!!! Far far better than what we have now. The only classes I could not take on where rogues, pallies and monks. Thats because they had stuns. All the other classes I ran across were toast! Once legion pre patch hit. MM blew!
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There are still private servers running, if you really, really want to go back to your playflow being solelyâŠ
- Kill Shot if able
- Aimed Shot until out of Focus,
- Steady Shot in pairs until your next pair would overcap Focus
- / Focusing Shot until you would otherwise overcap Focus
- Repeat
âŠand having less than half the mobility and only some two-thirds the active toolkit you have now.
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Having a smaller toolkit back then wasnt a problem since everyone hada smaller toolkit. And for some people just throwing in more spells in the rotation doesnt make it more fun, just look at WoD survival, it was the easiest specc but its still missed by many to this day 6 years later. The one thing legion MM missed imo was aoe since they used their single target rotations until 7+ targets.
A large issue is that they competly removed speccs from hunters in the legion rework, neither MM or survival are anything like their old self so there will be people that miss the old way of playing
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Sure, but that⊠still doesnât make an objectively more movement-constrained (for anyone who cared about their damage) superior in terms of mobility. We can now move up to 12 seconds in a row. Back then, 3 seconds.
Outside of True Shot, we now spent only 21% of our time immobile. Back then, 50%. (That is unless, again, one didnât give a damn about their damage, but thatâs not who we should typically be building the game around).
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You were more free to choose when to move which is a big diffrence. Also you could continue to dps even if you had to lose the buff for a few secounds, if i remeber correctly the base buff was less than 10% dmg increase and mastery was your secound worst stat so you wouldnt have much of it. So having a 90% uptime on the buff if you would have about a 1% dmg diffrence from someone that had 100%.
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You are only stationary for 5 in every 24 seconds now, instead of at least half the time. You can now move for up to 19 seconds at a time without loss, as opposed to⊠3 seconds.
How is the objectively more constrained model somehow more âfree to choose when to moveâ?
You realize you could, even if you mess up on all other counts, just hold off on using Aimed Shot for the second it takes to step out of the AoE forming under your feet, right, and that the loss from that would still be less than the penalty of having lost a second of Sniper Training uptime?
We need to stop evaluating things on nostalgia alone. The WoD model was objectively worse in terms of mobility.
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It worse since if something happends mid cast of aimed shot you need to cancel it, if you get hold of from using aimed shot for a while your dmg plummets. MM hunters dmg is extremly sensetive to movment now since so much dmg is loaded into aimed shot.
Compared to with sniper training you just wanted to make sure to move in 3s intervals, but if something came up it wasnt the end of the world you would take a slight dmg loss until you could find a safe spot again. This made them more suited to handle some the special mechanics some fight have.
It isnt nostalgia, having a 20-25% time with riggid timers you must stand still so you dont plummet your dps is much worse than having 50% time you want to stand still that you can choose when to use and if it isnt possible to maintain you only lose a fraction of your dmg.
Sniper training was far superior since you rarley need to move for more than 3s straight and for mechanics where you have to move for longer time its still superior since you lose less dmg when you moved compared to now.
And even more so there is like 11 caster speccs already existing why remove a unique mechanic like sniper training to give it hard cast instead, you just lessen playstyle diversity.
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Predict? As you would with any other cast time?
Thatâs⊠what allows them their gameplay interest: for most casters, that involves banking instant casts for upcoming movement; for MM, it turns into knowing and using your moments of opportunity to spend your infrequent casts.
Itâs a skill ceiling element. And a far more intuitive and immersive one than Sniper Training.
âŠYou have two charges on Aimed Shot. You choose when to use them.
If you never once had to move for more than 3 seconds without taking a 3 second pause between⊠you then managed the same damage as you currently get with the 58% greater mobility we have today.
Asking for Sniper Training back is asking to take a constraint currently applied to a skill used only rarely and apply it to your entire kit.
You realize MM wasnât the first to get mobile casting, right?
And MMâs playstyle is no less distinct for having switched to a simultaneously more intuitive and higher risk-reward / skill-ceiling playflow.
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You cant predict everything in a raid fight, having 3s of free movment is superior when dealing with mechanics than hoping mechanics wont land on you when you are doing your hardcasts.
Thats the point they took away a unique mechanic and replaced it with hard casts, the thing half the speccs in the game already have, why do you support lessening the gameplay diversity, MM was one of the most played speccs so people clearly didnt mind it back then.
Yes you choose when to use them until you end up getting interuppted and having to be on the move for to long, suddenly the dmg plummets.
Nope since you cant always predict when you will have to move so you cant prevent having to cancel aimed shots due to mechanics.
No it is asking to make you more flexable while also bringing back uniqueness to the class.
No there has been many diffrent spells that have beeen castable on the move but hunters were the first range to be fully mobile, and in this case sniper training is something that only one specc used which made them function diffrently from the other 36 speccs in the game.
It is absolutley less distinct, it doesnt have the free movment it had in MoP that made hunter stand out, it doesnt have sniper training that was its own playstyle from WoD, it doesnt have a vurnebility window gameplay from Legion, it has reduced its ability to deal with special side meachnics, it isnt some single target power house that you would expect from something called marksmen, it doesnt do large shotgun aoe that you had in Legion, all it has good cleave and somewhat more mobility than other casters. And i dont think increased skill celling works as an arguemtn in itself, having an increased skill celling is good but it should be the secoundary effect of a good change it shouldnt be the reason for a change
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