Yep, it’s horribly overtuned. I actually canceled my subscription over it since I know they won’t listen to the player base and fix it. And when’s the next time it comes around? 8 months? lol.
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The arguement is that it’s way too overtuned, like thousands of players have been saying it is.
I would happily have this discussion all day. There are essentially 3 versions of the Legion Mage Tower. The release version in April 2017, in Nighthold gear, the second incarnation from June to November with Tomb of Sargeras gear, and the post-Antorus version.
If their target was release difficulty, then for the most part, I think they hit it. The challenges I’ve seen so far very closely resemble my memory of the challenges from April 2017. If they were shooting for one of the other two versions then they missed badly.
Because of how closely it seems to line up with the Nighthold release I suspect that was the intention, which means any talk of tuning is completely off base. The discussion should instead be about why Blizzard chose the most difficult tuning for a timewalking rehash of the Mage Tower, and I could see plenty of good arguments on every side of that debate.
But the missing part of things like this:
is context, making these types of statements useless noise.
I feel like my main issue is the knockbacks from the nether adds. If they reduce how often they cast that, and nerf the 2nd phase boss by 10% then we have a sweet spot.
Thousands of players aren’t useless noise. That’s the type of logic that got the game to where it is today.
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Any idea of their intention being Nighthold-level tuning completely sidesteps that they specifically discussed at the time that it was overtuned (my point), because their target was Tomb, and that we’re currently squished even below what was available then. So even if their target was release level, it begs the question of Why that would possibly make sense as a target, given it would have been unreasonable for even that time if we didn’t know that future gear was coming in, and it’s much more limited in time atm, and made it debatable whether they’ve hit that tuning mark.
It would of course be a much better discussion if we had any word from them about WHAT their target experience is, but they’re certainly avoiding that for now. But assuming they’re intending to make it Nighthold-release level because of where it’s at is circular logic, that also assumes a company that regularly misses the mark on tuning and balance happened to hit it right this time.
The only other fact-based measurement I can think of is, how reasonable is it for someone doing the content for a limited-time event. If people are doing 100-200 pulls to get a boss down, given that not everyone is no-lifing the game during this holiday period, is the expectation to basically just get 1 spec’s boss or 2 down during a month-long window? And maybe 1 more each time the 1-week Timewalking opens up months from now? So the actual idea is that for everyone who isn’t rescheduling their life to focus on this to spend 1-2 years to get the 7-unique-boss mount? Seems janky to me.
I agree in principle, although I do think one could make an argument that they were targeting that for this first week as a reflection of the original open, and to provide a monstrous challenge for those who want that. That argument is predicated on the assumption of an easier tuning target for the next available tw weeks though.
Maybe, although I think it’s reasonable to assume that, if the current challenge is fairly equivalent to the release difficulty, and my experience suggests that it is, then it is more likely that was the intention than a coincidental mistuning of a different target difficulty.
And this is an argument I can get behind. While I appreciate and enjoy difficult challenges, I have a hard time understanding why they chose release difficulty for tuning (if that was in fact their choice), especially with the experience of so many people upset at their inability to complete the challenges in April 2017. I was honestly expecting something more like the Tomb of Sargeras version and it was a surprise to me to see them so hard. A pleasant surprise for me, but obviously not for most.
Thousands of players aren’t useless noise, but badly thought out arguments like “This is way overtuned” is useless noise, regardless of how many people make them. An appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy, and it’s especially frustrating to me to read this when there are so many other better arguments you could be making.
This is a great example. You think it’s overtuned and the first thing you mention is a mechanic that is 100% in your control. Have you considered not getting knocked back? The only reason to take a knock back is bad play (and I say that as someone who took lots of knockbacks while working on Kruul). Instead of complaining about it, I took responsibility for my bad play and fixed it.
Those thousands of players aren’t going to go into the technical aspects of it because they shouldn’t have to. That’s not their job, that’s the developers job to figure that out. And apparently yours, since you’re sitting in this forum with 1553 posts lmao. Again, your logic is the reason the game is the way it currently is.
And you’re making another illogical argument. Just because that mechanic is under one’s control doesn’t mean it isn’t overtuned. Let’s use that logic here for a second. According to you, it’s okay if all the adds 1 shot you in the tanking MT encounter.
Someone who attempted the Mage 10 times and is now crying on the forums simply because they cant do it themselves. PVP and PVE are two completely separate aspects of the game. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were using your welfare epics to attempt this challenge.
Ah, the difference between feedback and a review rears it’s head again. If they’re indeed going for the more difficult tuning, they expect a majority not to complete it and to be 
posting about it, making it more noise than signal.
I do love that someone would say this though, because while this statement is often over used or used out of context… THIS IS WHY YOU DON’T LIKE THE GAME
You have no concept of feedback and think they should just read your broken mind.
It is okay when you’re supposed to dodge the knockback. If you fail the mechanic then the consequence is death. So…don’t fail?
1500 posts over more than a decade is a lot? What?
Infernals knockback can be counteracted with wild charge. There’s one shot mechanics in P2 if you don’t mitigate using your abilities which is the whole point of the tanking challenge
You have options. Use em.
Have tried the tank challenge or cleared it? Its so much more than managing CD’s.
If that is a question to me, yes, it was the first one I did this time and I cleared it on all tanks in Legion.
There is a lot going on, sure, but if someone is complaining about infernals knockback then they are objectively doing the fight wrong. That’s the last thing in the fight that would be on a list of ‘tuning’ issues.
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Same! I am done with Blizzard’s inability to listen.
For the Protection Challenge:
Infernals
AoE: Hits really hard and sometimes doesn’t matter if you’re debuffed.
Smash: The Knock back from this is glitchy and will some times be full force, [it is supposed to be less when they’re closer to death /(smaller)] The effect stacks with beam from the eyes as well as other infernals so if you get overlap from these together its YEET town.
Eyes
Don’t know why they can’t be killed with Melee damage. Spawn rate is also sometimes glitched as a bunch will spawn together / in rapid succession.
Nether Horrors
Damage taken seems inconsistent, after hundreds of attempts, noticed their damage taken fluctuates, sometimes will die quick, other times they do not die fast enough. Consistent skill rotations tested. They should die just as fast every time, but do not.
Varris
Damage taken seems to vary, tested with a myriad of gear, his damage resistance seems to fluctuate as his health will drop really fast some times and other times with same ability rotation seems to take less than full damage.
Kruul
Why does this fellow need a 5% ticking heal with everything else going on?
Annihilate damage is excessive with typically 3 infernals up, all 4 Nether Horrors, and getting slapped around by beams.
Has too much health for a second phase to compete with secondary mechanics. The point of his fight is movement but that is negated entirely by Velen’s weakness and next to zero damage taken from the demon hunter.
Either Kruul needs nerfing or the assisting npc’s need to be boosted to the point they’re useful.
And again, this hasn’t been fun after many many many attempts navigating what it takes to beat it. I’ve mustered 18% HP on Kruul with side mechanics being entirely overwhelming from the start of his phase.
“Why do it if it’s not fun”
What business is that of yours? None.
Yes I beat it. Can only speak for guardian tho, which is who I was replying to doing.
This is intended. Solution: Don’t get hit by smash or beams.
They die with a single judgement. From range. Why would you want to bother to melee them?
Because it’s your job to interrupt Twisted Reflection and prevent that…Stun and orbs will do it if you’re out of range of your regular interrupt. It’s probably the most important mechanic in the fight, so I’m concerned that you’re not seeming to understand how it works.
First of all, how are you getting beams during Annihilates when that ability only happens in P2 from Kruul, and beams only happen from eyes, which despawn when Variss dies?
Second, Annihilate is the tank part of the fight. The damage stacks requiring increasingly strong cds to manage until you’ve lost the dps race. You can use orbs and stuns to interrupt annihilate casts, and although he’ll cast it again right after, you’re stretching the dps time you have each time you stop it. I’m sure there are better tanks who can take more, but 4 was my limit. You need to use cds and stuns to make sure he dies in 3-4 annihilates or you’re not doing enough damage.
The point of this fight is class mastery. Movement, cd management, interrupts, add pickup and positioning, and, drum roll please, damage. Fail at any of these and you probably won’t win.
Sure, but it’s weird to broadcast to anyone who reads this that “it’s not fun and the rewards aren’t any good” and then get all private when someone asks the logical question of why you bother at all if it’s not fun and you have no interest in the rewards being offered for completion.
Is it though? If someone has a consistent pattern of aiming for something and missing, is it actually reasonable to think it’s more likely they aimed for something and actually hit it for a change? If anything, wouldn’t them actually hitting something they intended for be the coincidental outcome? Missing their mark would be par for a course.
TBH, I can’t even see where it can be claimed that they even hit any mark. They rolled out a thing that ranged from some people facescrolling with Crusader Enchants and certain trinkets and what not, and where other people found their spec lacked the tools, or have a much more annoying time now that the Legendary that was the linchpin of a strat didn’t work, or the boss had been changed to make a strat unviable, or the boss simply had to get hotfix nerfs. That’s a pretty hilariously wide range.
Assuming any sort of easier tuning or change for future weeks, or future events seems like the opposite of what Timewalking is supposed to be about. The whole point of the Timewalking system (especially with doubling down on removing all borrowed power) is that they’re using it to keep something at a static point, which won’t change over time, or getting new gear from tiers, or adding new systems into the game, or whatever.