If you are talking about previous seasons, subtract 700~900 from your rating back then and that would roughly be your current wall at this moment.
Ah. I was hoping you had a miracle fix for it. Instead, it’s another one of these threads. “Get Rid of Challenger’s Peril” thread number 647.
The solution to Challenger’s Peril is to learn to use defensives and not die to avoidable dmg. If the healer can’t keep the group up when everyone is playing correctly, the key is dead and should be abandoned.
3 Likes
This mentality highlights exactly why Challenger’s Peril needs to go.
The following things are 
:
- Challenger’s Peril.
- Encourages group’s to disband early, and often by punishing minor mistakes. Players are more likely to leave at the first sign of trouble since failure feels inevitable rather than recoverable.
- It exacerbates toxic behavior within the community by incentivizing players to blame others or leave the group if things go poorly.
- Instead of promoting improvement and team synergy over time, it makes dungeons feel like high-stress sprints, where there’s no margin for error or room for learning. This kills the cooperative spirit that Mythic+ and group content should foster.
- Interrupts no longer lockout casts for a short time.
- Interrupts have traditionally rewarded players for skillfully timing abilities to lockout dangerous casts. Removing the lockout diminishes the value of good play, and just makes encounters feel more like brute force checks, instead of skill-based challenges.
- Reduces the feeling of mastering a dungeon or encounter, and instead, encourages reactive gameplay over proactive planning. This makes fights chaotic and punishing, creating frustration rather than fun.
- Healers are hit especially hard, as now they must prepare to heal through repeated high-damage abilities, often without sufficient downtime. This creates exhaustion and burnout rather than a sense of accomplishment.
- The key level squish.
- The smaller key range results in steeper difficulty curves. Progressing from a +11 to a +12 feels like hitting a brick wall. In the old system, players had more room to grow, with gradual difficulty scaling. Now, even small jumps feel punishing, leaving no room for incremental progress.
- This disrupts player motivation—when a single key level represents such a massive leap in difficulty, players feel stuck more often, unable to gradually improve their skills or gear. It forces players into a frustrating all-or-nothing scenario where runs feel either too easy or impossibly hard.
- The squish reduces long-term engagement. Previously, players could take pride in small improvements, working toward higher key levels over time. With fewer steps to climb, the sense of progress is lost, making players feel demotivated and less invested in the Mythic+ system.
- Priests not having an interrupt (and i’m not even a priest).
- Priests are the only class without an interrupt, which creates significant balance issues, especially in high-end content like Mythic+ dungeons where interrupts are mandatory.
- With the removal of the interrupt lockout, the absence of a priest interrupt feels even worse, as groups now need every interrupt available to deal with spammable casts. Priests become a liability in groups.
9 Likes
I’m sorry to hear that. What will you be playing
M+ is horrible ! I have looked forward to m+ every season and this one is absolutely terrible .
5 Likes
I’m sorry you are having a bad time. I could foresee months ago that combining fort and tyrann was going to end this way. It’s common sense. But Challenger’s Peril is literally the only affix we have ever had that is actually a good affix. It’s passive. It doesn’t affect gameplay in the sense that you have to interact with it, etc. It punishes only one thing, and it is the thing that should be punished the most. In dragonflight we had people timing relatively high keys with 20+ deaths. That is absurd. I left dozens of timeable keys because I just can’t play like that. I don’t even want the score or the loot.
Idk if challengers peril is the sole problem but it’s definitely not helping.
MarcelianOnline just posted a video that I felt was a pretty good critique of the current season… which is surprising bc I feel like he usually just posts click bait.
Either way I got my KSM and unsubbed. Im kind of a casual M+ player, I don’t really have aspirations for high IO. I just like doing dungeons and like the mounts.
But this season is just pain. Whenever I get a NW I genuinely feel like I have a dead key. And some of these weeks are so awful in terms of the affixes that all I want to do is get my vault and log for the week. It’s not fun.
2 Likes
They just need to get rid of Challenger’s Peril. Some of the dungeon choices for this season are also pretty garbage, but Challenger’s Peril is definitely the real culprit. It’s turned what would otherwise have been an enjoyable experience into a shining example of CBT.
3 Likes
Challenger’s Peril, the stops change, and the overall spikiness of player health bars really need to be removed/changed.
The myth vault change also makes alts kind of suck to play since the vault is so time gated and you have to do 10s now. Though, that’s just partially due to the aforementioned problems.
Also it really feels like they missed the mark with healer/tank balancing and design. DPS is just so stress free while tank and healer are sweating like mad getting knowledge and stat checked by every little thing.
5 Likes
Yeah…people said this in DF S4…yet TWW S1 followed the same trend of every other S1 m+
So im gonna file this here next to “this is going to kill WoW” folder
1 Like
I wonder if there’s something to get done here specifically, as while I think generally myth track items regaining at least some parity in acquisition difficulty was a good thing, I’m not sure the impact on people’s willingness to play multiple characters at a higher end has been a welcome side effect.
2 Likes
How are you determining “early” and what about Peril is making people leave earlier by that arbitration than before?
It may be literally earlier by virtue of it removing more time, but the way you say it makes it seem you think it’s a new phenomenon and Peril is to blame.
Disclaimer that I don’t like Peril, either.
As of this post I’ve timed every 11 timed except for one.
I agree, there need to be changes in the M+ system - however I do like the idea that there are step difficulties at 7 / 10 / 12. These exist in raiding, and should exist in M+ as well (imo).
We should be given the opportunity to retry keys at the same key level the dungeon started at.
If 9 → 10 is hard, and 11 → 12 is brutal, then just let us practice. I’m sitting on a 12 key in my inventory right now that I haven’t touched at all. If I could do it with low risk, maybe get a group of people in the same position who would like to “prog” a +12 for a bit, I would have at least attempted it.
The idea that… at any of the step levels that you’d increase difficulty 20% - 40% and, get one chance / one wipe to brick it, then fish randomly for the same key to actually improve - is a flawed system.
6 Likes
Would you be ok with this if it also meant keys could no longer be completed over time? As soon as it hits 0 it just resets.
1 Like
I think completion keys are still very important for the “in-between” player-base. The sort of key progging exists already at the 9-10 key level.
Maybe players who don’t have the gear or are still learning can complete a 10, but not time it for the weekly vault.
So to that effect, the key-holder should be given the opportunity to either get a downgraded key, or keep the same key at the same level.
This was a comparsion between our current season versus Dragonflight Season 4.
If you compare to Dragonflight’s first season, it had 4 times more players running mythic keystones weekly than our current season.
Not sure where you got the information about the milestones from, but we don’t have data of HOW HARD and TIME CONSUMING these milestones costed the player, even if they are reached within the same time frame.
5 Likes
But they choose before the run starts?
Idk I just don’t really get the logic. People complain about downgrading citing that raids just let you keep trying, but raids also don’t let you get the loot if you fail the fight.
1 Like
Ok if there’s no difference then wait until the end of this season too and then push your keys lol. People will all be 100% geared and have played for 6 months and can carry you right before the next patch.
Ah, I guess to clarify - the option to retry should only be available to uncompleted keys.