M+ Needs Modernized

They have. It’s called the weekly reset on Tuesdays

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How can I remove content from this game?

Which no one cares about.

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So the content you are advocating for you are also saying is in the game and nobody cares about it?

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No, they shouldn’t. If you don’t want to run M+ then don’t. It’s that easy.

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Great advice, ty for this!! :roll_eyes:

to off set how much easier m+ would be with no timer, dungeons would have to be made so much harder that people would mass complain

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Not whining about other people’s toys that don’t affect you will take you far

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OMG shut up about the timer.

I’ve been doing untimed 10s and +2’d 8s multiple times this week. The timer only matters if you’re failing, and if you’re failing then you NEED to get better to continue advancing. You got weeded out, deal with it. Stop expecting to get carried above the key level where you belong.

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They would be, but the challenge would need to come from the bosses. The nice thing about M+ is that the trash will almost never provide a firm wall, but if you’re sloppy or uncoordinated, they will slow you down enough to fail the timer, a soft fail state. If they remove the timer, the boss tuning will need to be adjusted accordingly, and we’ll just end up with 5 man raids with infinitely worse bosses because there is no way to make a 5 man boss close to as interesting as a 20 man boss. That is why I want the timer.

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WoW is very outdated in terms of more modern MMORPG. This isn’t 2004 anymore in which you can rely on raiding to be your core game loop. People don’t have time wipe on a raid boss for two hours.

WoW did tried to modernize in Legion but there was heavy push back from raid loggers about “force content.” That is when mythic plus was born. Mythic plus and world quests was the solution to people having less time to play or play in short spurts.

The timer is important in M+ so that a dungeon doesn’t take two hours

Can you imagine WoW’s encounter design if they removed every type of dps check, since really they’re all timers.

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Target dummy: The instance

You wouldn’t even bring dps, all healers and tanks.

And the content you still have if you simply enjoy the difficulties that existed prior to the addition of M+.

No, but the absence of the timer creates a wholly different experience. If there’s enough interest in 5-man raids, by all means lets add it to the game. But it’s just asinine to suggest nothing would be lost by many players if we simply remove the timer from M+.

While addons play a role in this cycle, so too does player skill. Even if Blizzard disabled addons tomorrow, the performance of the average player in group content would be far higher than it was 20 years ago. If Blizzard didn’t design content with ever increasing difficulty, anyone who reaches the top of the content would graduate out of the game. It’s the reason there are many more difficulty levels to choose from today than there were in vanilla.

This is a strawman. Nobody said content requires a timer to be difficult. Just that part of the difficulty intended for M+ was due to the timer. And removing that timer fundamentally changes the mode.

Because you never actually explain why this is the case. You state it as if is some undeniable fact and then deflect or ignore anyone who asks for clarification.

So 95% of raid bosses introduced before Sunwell?

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Nope, even those got big red and scary if you took too long.

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They tried to put enrage timers. They weren’t necessarily good at it (4 horsemen) but they were usually there

The reason no one has wanted to play healer/tank (especially tank) traditionally, has boiled down to those roles requiring more responsibility. I would argue that the current issue stems from more responsibility being on the dps this time around.

Was doing a +5 City of Echos the other day, and had a devo evoker doing less damage than me, a blood dk, I think we got 7-9 waves of adds on the first boss, and by the end of it, there was no place to stand because webs were everywhere.

I believe the design intentional in this regard, as Blizzard stated, they wanted to reduce tank reliance-- which to me, ultimately meant spreading that responsibility around.

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Imagine spending the bulk of your day worrying about some rando on the internet trying to “steal your toys”, lol.

You can’t fight raid bosses forever. They almost all have an enrage in some form that will wipe the raid in almost an instant. Timers have been a part of WoW since classic.

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Mythic+ wouldn’t exist without a timer.

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