How so? My argument is that the vault makes you want to do many keys a week not 1.
Titan residium does not change that.
The fact that doing 10 keys doesn’t increase your weekly loot, doing 1 actually rewarded more?
Not sure we are on the same page then if that is your argument.
We are talking about leaving keys right?
This version WILL be better than the old one, without question.
You disagree with that?
No, as most have found out, 1 choice out of 80 or 3 choices out of 80 makes little difference. It’s still bad RNG.
The fact we also only get a single item now since the PvP chest is not seperate anymore and Raid caches haven’t been from the mission table in a while, further compounds the loot nerfs.
The Great Vault is a curse disguised as a boon. It’s a nerf over what we had before.
But it’s not. In BfA, I could get 2 items per week. And even that wasn’t better than the old system.
The old system was best : Content dropped loot. You did content, you got rewarded. Not weekly chest crap.
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Drops are…gross.
It is genuinely unfun to run the same dungeon for the 20th time to get a conduit.
Though I can pretty much run Theater of Pain in my sleep at this point.
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Yes i disagree.
There shouldn’t be any rewards for failing anything
Just be aware, without titanforging it doesn’t matter that “content dropped loot.” You would not need that loot for any length of time.
It was only because of titanforging.
Interesting. Well I will struggle to understand any argument against that position, so no worries! To each their own. I know I personally quake for what the game would look like if people weren’t incentivized to do 10 keys a week now.
Are you high? Your character looks like your post…
Loot is fine. Quit whining because you aren’t being showered in loot for failing keys like you were in legion and bfa.
That’s not anyone’s fault but themselves.
Seems like most folks did both
Enchanters loved the extra stuff!
Great cut the sub price by 60% if we’re only supposed to play a few days a week.
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Titanforging wasn’t introduced until Warlords. Mists had Thunderforging and then Warforging at best in the raid.
Prior to that, that wasn’t a thing. The game thrived when it was an open world RPG with the CONTENT dropping the loot. Not weekly boxes.
And now since there’s no loot in them because of the nerfs, it’s dead. Except to streamers who want to get io by using “ways around the intended gameplay”.
No one was showered in loot for failing keys. You still killed the boss and finished the dungeon. You got 1 less piece than people doing it within the time. That was fine.
Cutting down from 2 to 1 piece and from 3 to 2 pieces for untimed and timed respectively has hurt the content, content enjoyed by many.
If anything needs to go it’s the Great Vault.
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I used to love M+ and would spam them constantly.
Now I just do one key a week to seed the vault, and that’s it.
SL is pretty much just logging in to raid for me already.
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That is really another issue isn’t it? Its not like m+ spam loot is going to be proper end game loot so why is it so gated? It caps at 210 and the best pieces available are 233, so why would 2-3 pieces a dungeon be harmful to the game? All it would do is speed up the entry level gear which is something that you can see happening with other loot systems, in raid there are the numerous pieces of loot that can drop that can eventually be traded over the course of more bosses that will die as progression happens, and pvp that just outright has a conquest cap that can be reached by you know just doing pvp, and allows for gear targeting as well. At present m+ is the only “end game” option that has no way to get a 226 piece outside of the great vault, raid just drops and pvp allows you to upgrade to that level, in that context limiting m+ loot makes no sense beyond wasting player time and lowering the interest in m+ due to lack of time efficiency.
The basic loot for doing m+ is already inferior to heroic raid loot and mid tier pvp loot so why is it also so annoying to get? Why should a 15 or higher give a worse reward then a heroic boss, let alone endboss when its supposedly end game content? And the great vault isn’t a great answer because you can double dip and at some point raid wins out there too in that at peak raiding you just need one farm run to get 1-3 choices that are all 226-233 vs 5-7 at least (accounting for group making and assuming a easy invite roll) hours of m+ for 3 226 options with more chaff than wheat, vs pvp with a similar timeframe but every piece is optimized for pvp since every piece has vers so less chaff since its harder to find a bad pvp piece.
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I think they should remove keys entirely and just let us select the level we want at the obelisk in the dungeon. Run whatever level you want of whatever dungeon whenever. Unlocking access to levels can be linked to the timer and there can be a leaderboard. That’s all the timer needs to be for. Loot doesn’t need to be linked to the timer either. If they really need a bonus in the box at the end for hitting the timer, make it anima based on key level. Give people 50 bonus anima per key level if they time it.
That way it’d be easy to find a casual we don’t care about the timer group for any level of any dungeon or just make your own whenever you want.
It’s not like the end of dungeon loot needs to be carefully protected or made difficult to access given its item level.
People complain about the quantity of the loot, but TBH I think the real problem is the item level.
The fact that a +15 end of dungeon reward is below heroic CN blows my mind.
M+ has to have it’s own reward structure, and the Vault has to be a bonus, not the one and only source of gear.
My 2c.
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good luck there is this giant divide for some reason, news flash people loot droughts won’t make the damn gear more meaningful.
Care to elaborate or are you just here to try and talk big? +10’s give you a choice of 220 loot from your vault. Raiding normal gives you 200 loot. There’s a large disparity there.
Well ironically, this is only actually a perception problem.
If the game dropped zero loot and things were tuned around it, it wouldn’t be an issue for the game, but players would still be upset.
People like loot, and its understandable, but that does not make it an objective issue the game needs to solve.
Either way it seems you missed my point.
If loot drops that you don’t need, you still find that worth your time?
I wouldn’t.
And that is where we are without titanforging and AP.
Even if M+ dropped an item for every player every time, you’d still find yourself in this situation eventually.
If it DID drop that much, you would be done with gearing in there very quick too.
Eventually, you need to be playing the content because it is actually fun.
So by default the content is “dead” the second it launched for you.
That’s why they slowed down loot acquisitions.
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