M+ is actually fun. Am I alone?

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Alrox-blood-furnace

I, for one, love the M+ format in terms of gameplay. It feels challenging and is always a dopamine hit when timing keys, especially higher ones. However, the friction points I have come around the “toxic” community that generally accompanies it and the fact that it feels miserable to get 55 gold, crests, and vault credit at the end of the dungeons.

I say “toxic” in quotes because people are rarely toxic in my definition. They’re just min-maxing to give themselves the best odds of completing the content. And that leads into the second point about the rewards aspect. The gatekeeping and general ugliness of people dipping from keys when things go poorly is directly related to that lack of good-feeling rewards from the end. If you’re busting your butt and spending gold on consumables, you want to waste as little of your time, effort, and gold as possible.

M+ feels like an all or nothing kind of game mode in terms of rewards. Either you time it and maybe get okay rewards if you’re lucky enough to be one of the 2 people to get actual loot or you don’t and get, basically, a slap in the face. For me, even timing the key can feel like a slap in the face when you have been on your A-game for the entire dungeon, doing incredibly well, and get nothing but 55 gold from the chest at the end. It definitely leaves me with the “why did I try so hard for gold and crests?” feeling in my gut.

I don’t think the rewards match the level of expertise required to get there, especially at 10+ keys and above. The level of personal responsibility in higher keys makes it far more difficult than raiding, in my experience, and rewards should be commensurate with the challenge.

TL;DR - I love the gameplay of M+ and the challenge it offers but I want a bit more from the Skinner box

I think one of the ways they could improve the feeling of being rewarded even when you don’t get loot is to start awarding some form of currency.

Then, you could use this currency to upgrade your existing gear so you’re still getting stronger even if you didn’t get the drop.

Maybe you could also use this currency to craft very powerful gear, in a targeted a slot, with perfect stats of your choosing to help fill the gaps. They could even let, maybe, 2 of the crafted items have special powerful effects so they are even better, maybe even BiS. This could even include weapons.

Maybe in Midnight they could do something like that to help.

And tbh in 10s and higher keys I’ve almost never seen anyone actually want the loot they got except once when a sac-brood trinket dropped. By that point everyone is in full or almost full hero track anyway.

[Nightbladi-daggerspine]

That was fun with group.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

Would M+ players get mad if Blizz made AI tanks for M+? You bring the other four, but the tank is AI and goes the blizzard set route. Others need to interrupt, and do mechanics, but the tank just tanks. Not saying people couldn’t sign up to tank if they wanted, but it would be setup to be tanked by AI. It would solve the tank shortage and then when people needed to scream at something they could blame the AI. It would never be their fault always just ‘that stupid AI’.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Bingchow-arygos

Lastly, before the elites insult me, I usually only pug to the 2700s before swapping to an alt to do the same. It’s the way I like it, and if you’re a 3000+ pugger, then I imagine you at least like M+ a little already.

M+ is the only reason I play WoW and I pug by choice.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

Blizz could save so much money then if they just feed you dungeons, no world, no anything else, just dungeons. You could que from one to the next in a lobby and they wouldn’t have to spends tens of millions on all the rest of the art and design. It wouldn’t be anything remotely close to WOW. But you said its the ‘only’ reason you play. I can’t imagine reducing this game down to that one small aspect of it.

[Bonusbronze-sargeras]

@Bingchow-arygos

One thing I always do and that keeps me pumped for dungeons is keep a spreadsheet of my m+ performance lol.
Dungeon, Spec, Overall DPS, iLvl.

What does this provide Warcraft logs doesn’t? I log every dungeon for not only this but to find and correct things. Between the Warcraft logs client and loggerhead in game I just always have love logging going and barely have to do anything for setup.

@Bingchow-arygos

Testing. It is insanely fun testing other specs or classes and seeing how they all compare to each other in playstyle, damage, etc. Alts aren’t for everyone but its a great feeling find a new spec that just clicks with you.

This is my favorite late season activity.

[Smaragdt-area-52]

Sadly a former guild pal just said that:
He would be happy with just a lobby without the “RPG CONTENT” around.
I asked him why he not plays a MOBA or h&s that is so super simple?
No answer till today.

Really…WOW should focus on many different things @ endgame. Not only clock-dungeons and raiding.
Just sad atm.
Looking forward to housing

[Mystôgan-greymane]

@Sôsari-dalaran

@Bingchow-arygos

Lastly, before the elites insult me, I usually only pug to the 2700s before swapping to an alt to do the same. It’s the way I like it, and if you’re a 3000+ pugger, then I imagine you at least like M+ a little already.

M+ is the only reason I play WoW and I pug by choice.

Your highest key is a 13 and you have literally ZERO rating in arena. Quiet down, kid

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Tanksdead-alleria

Blizz could save so much money then if they just feed you dungeons, no world, no anything else, just dungeons.

Not going to lie, probably. I said this before, but they should stop adding levels and zones to new expansions and instead focus on just adding access to content with expansions. Like new dungeons, raids, ect. This way they will never be out leveled.

@Tanksdead-alleria

You could que from one to the next in a lobby

Hard pass. Extremely against queued M+.

@Tanksdead-alleria

you said its the ‘only’ reason you play. I can’t imagine reducing this game down to that one small aspect of it.

I never said they should reduce it down. I said why I personally play WoW.

---

@Mystôgan-greymane

Your highest key is a 13 and you have literally ZERO rating in arena.

1. What does my highest key being a 13 have to do with this?
2. What does zero arena rating have to do with this?

@Mystôgan-greymane

Quiet down,

You are literally just a mad sock puppet. Sorry I caught you in the other thread self liking your own post and bumping it.

[Bizob-lightbringer]

I have never found mythic+ fun. But thats ok. Its not a part of the game I ever play. I tried it a few times and it wasn’t my cup of tea. I don’t hate it though. Some people love it some don’t. Again, thats OK. I don’t like PVP either, so I don’t PVP. There are plenty of other ways to play and enjoy this game. But bashing others for how they play and enjoy it isn’t a good thing. Pugs are going to be a mixed bag of good and bad experiences.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

I was just teasing you man, cause you said it’s the ‘only’ reason, and I doubted that. But I understand your actual point.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Tanksdead-alleria

I was just teasing you man

Gotcha, sorry for the response. Hard to know with GD. You saw the other guy below I’m sure.

@Tanksdead-alleria

cause you said it’s the ‘only’ reason, and I doubted that

I actually only log on for M+. If I get burnt out then I’ll play another game until the next season.

[Oumura-area-52]

@Tuwen-moon-guard

Um, nope. It is the most boring, repetitive system I have ever engaged with in an MMO. I think it has made dungeon design extremely boring, I think it has limited class design, created a ton of homogenization in class and gear design. It is also the most toxic activity I have ever engaged in an online game. Worse than LoL rank mode.

see. you as a m+ player and they will go " i like it cuz its fun and quick to do "
then you get this from someone who for some reason just hates it.

@Smaragdt-area-52

Hearing people saying without they would play: There is the door. An MMO should be NEVER reduced to some e-sport-nonsense.

we are the toxic ones here have in mind not the guy that its literally telling someone that likes mmo to gtfo of the game if you like “esport nonsense”

@Falaos-stormrage

M+ is what keeps this game alive.

@Tuwen-moon-guard

You couldn’t be more wrong.

its a fair opinion but i guess its wrong to have

now have in mind. M+ is literally 1/8 of the content in all of wow.

the game has an overarching story.
different areas in a new continent. filled with rares and secrets to play world quests and such
it has raids 4 different difficulties
it has dungeons 3 other difficulties besides M+
there is crafting which is a whole new thing you can do and enjoy
and now there is delves. single player content ( or grouped ) that its super easy to access and beat. gives great rewards.

but no

m+ needs to die and disappear because. i guess the people that like it are wrong lol.

remember we are the toxic ones. the ones that like m+

[Mystôgan-greymane]

Someone must of hurt your fragile ego

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Mystôgan-greymane

must of hurt your fragile ego

No, I’m just confused why you are telling me to sit down for replying to the OP and agreeing with them by saying I enjoy M+ and is the only content I play.

You literally dug into my profile to randomly point out that I’m “only” doing 12 and 13s and that I have no arena experience when I never claimed to have any.

The only one with a hurt ego here is you cause I caught you self-liking your thread with 5 alts.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

I think its fun… I do think the current weekly chest system stretches out how long it lasts till its no longer enjoyable.

[Piffling-stormrage]

@Falaos-stormrage

M+ is what keeps this game alive.

I have a feeling delves is about to take this trophy away. While M+ is clearly more popular than raid and helped keep the game alive since Legion I would argue a system like Delve is going to keep even more players around for its more casual approach.

Who knows, is housing in Midnight lands then that might take the trophy away from Delves. The more casual friendly the content the more mass appeal it can hold.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Smaragdt-area-52

Sadly a former guild pal just said that:
He would be happy with just a lobby without the “RPG CONTENT” around.
I asked him why he not plays a MOBA or h&s that is so super simple?
No answer till today.

Really…WOW should focus on many different things @ endgame. Not only clock-dungeons and raiding.
Just sad atm.
Looking forward to housing

WoW seems to be trying new things/gimmicks since the mythic+ era (Legion) but at the end of the day it’s still WoW.

I’m curious if people frequently try and ask for making large shifts in how other games work.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

The reason people rally so vehemently is in hope the devs will change something or won’t change something. We all exaggerate to make points. Some want more reward for putting time into the game, some want more reward for doing social things, some want the game easier, other want harder. So the hyperbole runs rampant to try to persuade the development of the game. That’s why the bashing or disregard of other happens. To some extent it has to.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Tanksdead-alleria

So the hyperbole runs rampant to try to persuade the development of the game. That’s why the bashing or disregard of other happens.

I agree with this statement a lot. You also have people who try to argue against and without hyperbole with actual data and they get dog piled on.