M+ gear in shadowlands with no titan forging

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

Do you feel timing +18s to be easier than most mythic bosses?

Final bosses of course not. Imo they should drop 450, and be the only source of 450 in the game.

[Synsha-sargeras]

@Vadimier-tanaris

You’d be massively overestimating the difficulty of the first half of the raid then. Myself, a boomkin and a warlock friend literally carried the rest of the dps through the first several bosses of EP.

Meh, I find +15’s rather trivial at this point, and I don’t push keys very much. So no I don’t think so.

I’m fine with rewards going higher, but if that’s the case… There needs to be a lock out, or the paths need to be separated. Otherwise you’re giving one path repeatability and the other path lockouts.

[Poondoctor-shadowmoon]

@Tywín-illidan

I get plenty of benefit from Mythic raids even if M+ gear was buffed to account for the difficulty of keys above a 10. In no way does my work in Mythic raids become invalidated.

and here is the deal, it just makes it possible. just like most people dont mythic raid, the vast majority of M+'ers will never do a +15. they wont even if their toon is geared enough.

we are talking about gearing for the top idk 10% of the mythic+ population. not giving all the people all the loots.

[Synsha-sargeras]

On certain weeks? Absolutely… Any week with volcanic or raging = WAY easier than M Orgo and on.

Even if they are harder though… that doesn’t really matter. The point is your putting in one path that has no limit on rewards and another that does have a limit. Anyone who in anyway wants to push progression or ranking will in fact be forced to chain run M+.

[Medaax-area-52 (Medaax)]

@Argorwal-ysera

For raiding, i feel boss 1 should drop 5 item levels less and final boss drop 5 item levels higher.

And drop more than 4-ish pieces of loot for 20 people especially when you can’t even trade the loot half the time.

[Signey-wildhammer]

@Lethal-kromcrush

M+ is far more popular than mythic raiding will ever be.

This comparison doesn’t work, unless you’re intentionally trying to twist information to validate a bias.

[Lethal-kromcrush]

Say’s you. But the same could also be said of your argument. You don’t want it to to be true, to suit your bias.

[Vadimier-tanaris (Vadimier)]

@Synsha-sargeras

Meh, I find +15’s rather trivial at this point, and I don’t push keys very much. So no I don’t think so.

I agree, +15s are fairly trivial. Just… the first 3 bosses of Mythic EP are far, far more so in my opinion.

Edit: Depending on the affixes, like you pointed out in another comment. M+ difficulty is variable, of course. Makes 1 to 1 comparisons a bit more difficult.

@Synsha-sargeras

I’m fine with rewards going higher, but if that’s the case… There needs to be a lock out, or the paths need to be separated. Otherwise you’re giving one path repeatability and the other path lockouts.

Mythic + wouldn’t work with a lockout… now, some kind of soft lockout on the drops might work.

Or they could leave it as is and only allow max m+ level gear to occasionally, perhaps more rarely than now, warforge (not titanforge) to that “just below mythic raid” level–but only if you time a key over, say, +15 or so.

Or even a currency system that would allow you to slowly upgrade gear to that same point.

Just a few ideas. There isn’t any one right answer.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Medaax-area-52

@Argorwal-ysera

For raiding, i feel boss 1 should drop 5 item levels less and final boss drop 5 item levels higher.

And drop more than 4-ish pieces of loot for 20 people especially when you can’t even trade the loot half the time.

Well, i feel if we are stuck with PL it should be tradeable always.

[Greysonx-cairne]

Not to derail the thread but I seriously like your mog. Looks great on DI.

[Poondoctor-shadowmoon]

@Synsha-sargeras

I can guarantee you that it will no longer be an “alternate” path to gearing… it will be THE path to gearing.

idk 5 people, 3 loot drops, at best 2 pieces of gear out of 20 that you want. how many people spamming say TD +10 over and over dont get a cudgel for most of a tier forged or not? you act like getting specific loot out of M+ is easy when it really isnt.

[Synsha-sargeras]

@Poondoctor-shadowmoon

and here is the deal, it just makes it possible. just like most people dont mythic raid, the vast majority of M+'ers will never do a +15. they wont even if their toon is geared enough.

we are talking about gearing for the top idk 10% of the mythic+ population. not giving all the people all the loots.

What do you think of my two solutions above?

@Synsha-sargeras

My two solutions:

1. Put in dungeon sets that only work in M+ so that if you want to push into the 20’s and above you’re doing M+ to progress. This way the gear paths start similar, but separate at the top end so that you M+ to do more M+ and you raid to do more raids.

or

2. Keep the gear paths together so that they interfere with each other, but change the gearing of M+. It needs a weekly lock out just like the raid, and you only get a reward out of the dungeon if it is done in time. I get exactly NOTHING from wiping to M Azshara for 4 hours. You should get exactly nothing from not doing a dungeon in time.

I’m actually with you and don’t think M+ players should be forced to do M raids to be competitive in their content. But on the flip side… you have to understand that I also don’t think it’s a good idea to make M+ even MORE lucrative than it currently is forcing mythic raiders to do M+ if they want to be competitive in their content of choice.

Edit: I should add that in solution 2, I mean for the reward to go up to a mythic raid ilvl.

[Lethal-kromcrush]

@Synsha-sargeras

I’m actually with you and don’t think M+ players should be forced to do M raids to be competitive content. But on the flip side… you have to understand that I also don’t think it’s a good idea to make M+ even MORE lucrative than it currently is forcing mythic raiders to do M+ if they want to be competitive in their content of choice.

Nobody is forcing you, but you. Having options is better than not having options. How selfish of you. You want the entire game to suit your desired playstyle. Everyone else has to suffer, because Synsha doesn’t like doing M+. The gall … jeez.

This is exactly why raidloggers come off as the most selfish beings on earth. They want to log in, raid a few hours, and log back out with the best possible gear. And any part of the game that doesn’t exactly fit that, they want removed or nerfed into oblivion.

[Synsha-sargeras]

@Vadimier-tanaris

I agree, +15s are fairly trivial. Just… the first 3 bosses of Mythic EP are far, far more so in my opinion.

Eh, I disagree. But this is just subjective at this point.

@Vadimier-tanaris

Mythic + wouldn’t work without a lockout… now, some kind of soft lockout on the drops might work.

Why wouldn’t it work without a lockout? You run dungeons to get as high as you possibly can, then open a chest at the end of the week with 5-6 rewards to choose 1-2 items from whose ilvl are based on your highest timed key. Running additional M+ during the week affords you the opportunity to get your key to go higher, give you anima power, give you gold, or heck w/e other currency you may desire.

What I’m not interested in is a system that lets me fully mythic gear the first week of the tier. I’m capable enough of a player to do it, and I’m not interested in watching the entirety of my gear prog be over week 1 outside of a trinket or random item affix proc.

[Vadimier-tanaris (Vadimier)]

Thanks! It’s one of a couple I use a lot.

Gotta look like a walking fortress as a dwarven prot warrior.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

It kinda effects the linear progression of the game…

That said mythic plus is in a super weird area when it comes to rewards… wow isn’t really built around 5 man content and its rewards always feel off.

[Signey-wildhammer]

In case you are just being obtuse, I’ll play along by posing a question:

How do you think taking all of m+ (ranging in difficulty from easy to very hard) and mythic raiding (hardmode only) and comparing their participation, makes any sense whatsoever? And this is ignoring the fact that you don’t actually have any quantitative information to back it up.

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

I’m kinda getting bored of this thread, can’t you guys just make one.
We’ve had maybe 2 a days if not more about the same subject.

[Lethal-kromcrush]

Probably because it’s evidenced by the seasonal approach to wow we’ve been taking part in for quite some time. 3 progression paths, all supposedly equal. M+, Raiding, and Pvp. Duh

[Synsha-sargeras]

@Lethal-kromcrush

Nobody is forcing you, but you. Having options is better than not having options. How selfish of you. You want the entire game to suit your desired playstyle. Everyone else has to suffer, because Synsha doesn’t like doing M+. The gall … jeez.

This is exactly why raidloggers come off as the most selfish beings on earth. They want to log in, raid a few hours, and log back out with the best possible gear. And any part of the game that doesn’t exactly fit that, they want removed or nerfed into oblivion.

If you’re going to take the obviously illogical approach of “no one is putting a gun to your head to do it” that’s fine. In that case enjoy having sub-par gear, as no one is stopping you from joining a mythic raid team so you can do M+.

As for that tactic, how superficial are you? You do realize that raid spots competitive yes? This isn’t a family guild being run that brings anyone… You do everything you can to be as competitive as possible. You seriously think it won’t hamper my viability if I decide to not run a relatively easy (for me) repeatable source of gear when everyone else on my team (and newer recruits) do?