The problem is that you need a point to balance around. 15’s are that point and it’s fine right now. Balancing around 23’s won’t make your life any easier in a 15.
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THIS ENTIRE GAME favors ranged over melee. smh
You have respectable and empathetic aims, I dig that. I don’t mean to be contrarian.
I think balance is a continuous pursuit. I should probably disclose that I enjoy asymmetry and enjoy the peaks and valleys that emerges from these kinds of games. So I submit that my bias is influencing this.
I’d like to make one point, perhaps in a dying effort to promote objective performance benchmarks, by sharing a post I made a year ago. It was specifically to try and explain the required dps and pacing for a dungeon, and I share it to highlight how I think important and helpful it can be to analyze what objectively needs to happen (dps thresholds) in lieu of what the player character balance should look like.
Thank you for the good discussion, too. I appreciate your reasoned responses.
Why HoA? My favorite is Plaguefall, Necrotic Wake and De Other Side… even Sanguine Depths and Theater of Pain are fun.
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I like PF too. Going to have to disagree on SD though lol.
SD is really fun with a competent group. More so than other places with competent groups.
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I’m sure that’s true. I’ll let you know when I find one 
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Re roll alliance lol
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Haha maybe. I’m so jaded on pre-nerf SD that I don’t think I’ll ever get over the hatred I have for it.
See, he’d then play with me and between your 
and my 
we’d balance out to a net neutral and he’d be right back where he started
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I’ll always miss Dapler the gnome, but the grass is a bit greener on the horde side.
This is a troll pun, yah Mon?
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I think people try to get too fancy with SD. I run it straight with no invis.
There’s definitely some truth to that. I rarely get into a pug that gets passed the 2nd boss. It’s funny in a way because I get the impression that people don’t really know the finer points in the second half of the dungeon because most people never get passed the 2nd guy lol.
There’s a lot less experience on the 3rd and 4th boss and that goes for me too.
On a personal level, I do value asymmetry as well. I think WC3 and SC are objectively better games than WC2 for that reason.
But I think there’s enough asymmetry in HOW classes perform tasks without also meaning certain classes are incapable(or viewed as such) due to how poorly they do it. I would posit that a class burning an enemy with DoTs is different enough from a class beating it to death with a hammer that they don’t need to be significantly different in overall numbers for it to offer a fun asymmetry.(just as a dramatically oversimplified example)
I do think that objective benchmarks are important. I’m not trying to say they SHOULDN’T use the type of data you’re championing, only that that data - on its own - is insufficient to tell the whole story. My apologies if it came across as me saying that specific type of data shouldn’t be used or wasn’t valuable. That was not my intent.
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This is a good question and I think one way people need to look at this is how much does lust/hero add to the run?
30% haste for 80 seconds vs one of the DPS doing 20% more damage then what another spec in that role can do.
I think in most cases that 20% is going to far surpass what hero or lust add. And with the M+ timer being a DPS check that matters a lot.
The timer is a staying alive check.
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I agree that the delivery method of the ordnance is where the flavor comes from, not necessarily the yield. Well, maybe…
Just like Wayne Gretzky said: “You miss 100% of the damage you can’t do when you’re dead.”
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Mobs die from bursts before dot classes can fully ramp up due to global cds in lower keys, however they are able to fully ramp in high keys. How would blizzard “balance” it for low keys and not have them over perform in high keys?
There’s a reason they are top tier in raids.
This is why I believe it is okay for specs to do well in one content area and just okay in another. Currently all specs are fully capable of getting to +15 and even +20, objectively. You can’t balance a game based on public perception.
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Didn’t Michael Scott say that?