What I find interesting of the people who are complaining about this are two questions I have----
Inquiring minds want to know… 
Hopefully the bans get some of the toxic defenders of bad behavior from here.
what about the toxic potatoes?
There aren’t any toxic potatoes! Potatoes are immune to such things!
Did you really just say people have their mental health damaged over a silly video game? Top tier melodramatic nonsense here 
Yes and I have. There are times you have a bad string of players you invite. It sucks but there is no point in doing yet another Ara-Kara where the group wipes on the first boss yet again.
It costs more time you could be doing a good run in, a ton of gold in repairs particularly as a tank (I’ve had runs cost nearly 3k gold) and just makes a person feel frustrated which can lead to actual toxic behavior such as telling someone to… because you just can’t put up with people anymore.
Not asking for the metrics of players leaving. Instead we are asking for specific guidelines. How many runs in a specific time period and how many wipes/deaths etc is ok before we are no longer held hostage in groups that its clear are not capable of timing or completing a key.
If you can ban or suspend my account I would like to know what for before it happens. Thats not really to much to ask for.
This is a completion group mark it as such and there wouldn’t be a problem. I won’t sign up for those as I’m not looking to be in a run with 250 deaths and 3 hours, I’ve done them and never again.
What I want to know is why can’t we get the player with 625 ilvl and 2.5K IO who doesn’t interrupt and can only do 600K dps banned for trolling the group and making it impossible to complete the key?
I don’t want to get that person banned but that also means I sure as hell don’t want to be held hostage by them.
And if I’m going to leave and risk a suspension anyway I might as well tell them exactly what I think as its not going to be any worse of a punishment. Or maybe I just troll the group myself and cause as many wipes as possible to get my point across.
I can be passive aggressive as much as the next guy and will if its the only way I can prevent a ban. Me leaving without a word is one of the nicest things I can do.
Because playing poorly isn’t against the rules, unless there’s evidence that they’re 100% trolling/throwing/griefing in which case that is reportable. So by all means, report the player for that if you think that’s happening. Just don’t be surprised if Blizzard rules that it was poor play rather than malicious behaviour.
As I said, leaving once or twice every now and then? You’re not going to get banned for that. The people Blizzard has specifically said this targets are the serial leavers. The type that leave multiple runs an hour. Blizzard understands that emergencies happen. They understand that sometimes a run isn’t going to time and so in that situation they’re likely not going to hit you with the banhammer.
But if you’re leaving constantly within 5 minutes of each run starting for example? Then that’s something Blizzard is going to act on.
So someone making it impossible to complete or time is ok but having the intelligence to say yeah this isn’t going to work and leave is bad and punishable?
In what world does that make sense to you?
I don’t need to because again I can troll the group within the guidelines set to get my point across. Say on the last boss of NW I keep dispelling right on top of the tank or run my circles on top of people. After all its just bad playing right? Can’t hold me accountable for just being bad at the game.
So you say but until we get the actual guidelines from Blizz themselves we have no idea. We think that its ok for now but whos to say certainly not us.
And what happens when you get a ton of bad groups in a row? Now your just out of luck with a suspension? What about the people who are just going to troll and report every person who leaves first? Is anything going to happen to them?
Look I get leaving is an issue but they need to come out with very specific guidelines. At best what this is going to do is ensure I never take a risk with bad players. Thought it was hard getting into a +10 before as a dps well unless you timed a +11 you will not get into my +10 because I can’t risk the group failing. At worst its going to irritate people like myself and cause what people would actually consider toxic behavior.
Along with the guidelines they should also implement something like a ready check, call it a disband check and if 3 of 5 players vote disband than you can disband without it counting against you even if reported.
What this has effectively done is ensure that I no longer do M+ in a pug which is the vast majority of my keys. Because M+ is what I enjoy about the game its making me rethink if I will even continue to sub. Thats not a good move for the company to make.
Again, leaving every now and then is going to be fine.
Serial leavers are the ones who Blizzard is targeting. Are you a serial leaver? No? Didn’t think so. So the odds of you getting banned is extremely low.
Blizzard knows the mechanics to the fights they create. If they know that will wipe the group, and you keep doing it, then yeah, they’ll ban you for that. So if you want to get banned, by all means, be a douche to your group. That’ll fly as well as a balloon made out of solid steel.
Blizzard LITERALLY said this is who they were targeting with this change. You’re the one spinning this into a ‘but maybe’ fearmongering scenario.
It isn’t more clear than that.
Essentially I do agree with your assessment, especially the highlighted part, no question about it. But let me ask you a follow up to this: would you still abandon several your keys (say, from 11+ down to a 5+) in a row if you realize you’re not going to time them if you’re halfway or near the end of the run?
It’s essentially the same thing. Blizzard has a track record of doing something and not really giving any meaningful details on how and why they did it. We’ve seen this all the time when they nerf/buff certain classes. Do you really think they’re going to explain in detail to us now?
That’s a fair enough request, but this is Blizzard. How long have you been here, my man?? 
It’s funny because it’s all the same thing and we all know what is intended to be said with words like this…
But say the actual word and feathers get all ruffled.
Someone saying much worse in their discord will want the power to report you for it.
Again I have no idea as this is very vague. I may have dropped as many as 50 M+ over the course of this season across all my toons.
Look you can’t define serial leaver. To some people they have defined it as 2+ leaves others think you can leave hundreds and be ok. None of those definitions matter what does matter is the one Blizz sets and they are not telling us. I have no idea why you keep going on about your definition of it as that is meaningless. We want and need it said specifically from Blizz.
Yet you just said they wont do it for bad playing as its not against the rules…
How are you going to prove intent. After all I could be over here with a migraine and or having a stroke.
What they gave was a vague description much like what they do with words that will get you suspended that can and do change regularly and without anyone understanding the rules. Look there have been threads I have been in where the word huntard has been said more than a dozen times. Yest I use it to refer to myself as someone with autism and I get a 3 day suspension. I don’t need the same kind of 
happening when it can result in an in game suspension.
Yes very clear how many is this? give me an exact number please… I’ll wait.
It quite literally can by saying anyone who leaves groups 250 times or more in a season as the first person to drop will be suspended. See how hard that is.
Depends.
If its a run like SV and the tank does the triple pull and the first fear goes off everyone but the tank dies, he pops bubble and keeps it going than the healer dies yet again leading to all the dps dying again I would just drop. My experience in that dungeon has shown me that there is no way such a group will get the elemental boss down as they lack the coordination to do the geodes correctly.
Now I might get say 3-4 groups in a row like this and I will get irritated enough for the night to just log off and watch a movie or do something else in game.
If I come back later and it keeps happening I could see reasonably depleting my key to around that as the 6-7 key range is far worse groups on average. But the more it happens the more selective I’m going to be in choosing who get into my group so its bound to be less likely.
It isn’t though asking for metrics would be getting a bell curve chart. All I want is x amount of runs in y amount of period and if it only counts against you when you leave first, do you need to be reported by other players etc.
Intent is pretty easy to prove.
See, if you do an M+ boss and it’s the first time you’ve done it (Blizzard knows, they have the data) and you dispel right on top of the tank or accidentally run a circle on top of the group and cause a wipe. Then that’s an accident. The group will likely tell you in text chat not to do that.
Second time you do that, that becomes less excusable, but okay, you’re still learning, maybe you panicked.
Third time or more? At that point it’s obvious you’re doing it to troll/deliberately piss off the group, players have likely left out of anger, and have likely reported you as well. So Blizzard will act on that, and you’ll deserve it, because it was a douche move and you deserve a ban.
Blizzard ain’t stupid chief, but if you want to push boundaries, it’s your account on the line so go for it. Just don’t come here crying about the ban you get claiming you ‘did nothing wrong’.
Grow up.
Easiest ignore I’ve had to make in a while. Some of you clowns are insufferable.
See I have you saying this yet we have someone else saying that they can’t punish players for being bad. So than I can leave and just report the 625ilvl player that only did 600K dps as the reason to leave and he will get the suspension not me. But again we all know thats not going to happen.
As far as intent good luck proving that again you can’t tell medical conditions such as migraines, arthritis flair ups, being distracted by a child etc. You really think they are going to suspend people for these issues? And if they do and its a genuine medical issue can they now be held liable for discrimination against medical issues? Thats a can of worms I don’t think they will want to deal with.
Ah yes asking for clarification and specifics and giving examples on how this is going to cause worse issues is not being a grown up…
All this is going to do is turn M+ into LoL and other MOBAs where everyone reports everyone when they lose just on the hope that they get actioned for ANYTHING.
Sorry I missed this part. I’ve been here since release and its long enough to know that they won’t unless it hits them in the pocket book.
Right now I’m doing the puzzle so I haven’t had the desire to do M+ but once I’m done I may rethink my sub over this. Why is this an issue for M+ and not BG’s or the leavers in solo where it really was a problem. Where are the sanctions for raiders?
All this can be avoided by just stating the guidelines which I know they won’t unless enough people leave and list as a reason they are or M+ numbers plummet.
Than again this may be another method they are trying to use to kill the M+ pug scene which has seemed to be their goal this season although thats a bit tin foil hat.
I’ve seen a disturbingly large number of players in the past few weeks desert dungeons, most often the healer because they thought the dungeon wouldn’t time… while we still had double digits on the clock.
This guy trying to be the edgiest lord talking about 3k+ when they choose to have their armory hidden and are 2600 skill capped on raiderio 