Cant get kicked in the teeth if blizzard removes all of your teeth beforehand. The horde cant suffer a horrendous loss because we have nothing left TO lose, blizzard has already utterly gutted the horde and removed anything of worth.
7 Likes
We still have Lor’themar and Thrall. 
depends on what they do with thrall. Return Vanilla thrall? alright
Keep “im a sad stay at home dad who lost his mojo” thrall? he can stay in outlands.
Also Lor’themar has always and will always be a nothing-burger. Like, you could just remove him and all references to him from the game one day and virtually nothing would change.
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I don’t consider either of them to be “of worth” anymore. Thrall is sad and depowered. Lor’themar seems to have been lobotomized somewhere along the way.
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Bruh you didn’t lose Zekhan. He’s still alive.
1 Like
I don’t think that “inability to react appropriately to the Villain-Sue” is indicative of lobotomy. No one can react appropriately to Sylvanas. It’s not allowed. She has more plot armor than (Big G) God.
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He’s focused on an heir to his regency.
its hard to take Zappyboi as a legitimate character.
but then again, i think tink-tink should be the leader of the forsaken (mostly due to a lack of better options) so im not one to talk.
Bonus points if she never talks and communicates by smacking the ground with her flag.
2 Likes
Real talk, a question for you and other players who feel similar what, can they alliance do or what can the horde lose to make you feel like things are even and the cycle should finally end?
I still wanted her and Zakhan to be a pair that interacted with each other on a regular basis. It’s been years since we’ve had a Asric and Jadaar buddy duo and I feel like they would have been good for it.
And if there was to be humor involved it could have involved Zakhan trying to strike up conversation but being met with only stares.
Honestly, I’d just like an actual Alliance story. I’m not talking about a night elf story. I’m not talking about a draenei story.
I want a story about the entire Alliance, self contained that involves the Alliance and involve the entire Alliance, not just Anduin, Jaina, or Genn. Everyone. I don’t want it to be jump started by the Horde blowing something up. I don’t want it a Horde character being a cheerleader to get the Alliance character motivated into action. I want a self contained Alliance storyline.
I want the same thing for the Horde, though this is much easier because most Horde stories actually involve the entire Horde. But I don’t want Alliance characters to show up and play cheerleader. I don’t want the story to be the Horde needs Alliance anything to help them out. I want a self contained Horde storyline.
Do these and I will be quite pleased.
12 Likes
It is definitely not possible in the short term. I think, however, that if Blizzard were to bite the bullet and have the story step back from this stuff - sweep the various revenge threads under the carpet and focus on different types of stories - then in the short term lots of people would be upset and rant and rave. Over time, though, I like to think that the majority of people would get on board with it if it did reduce toxicity amongst the player base.
1 Like
not sure why you are disrespecting with personal insults, are you okay bud?.
Now that you ask i would be honestly be happy if the story is more about the alliance and less a bout the horde clown fiesta. and yes not only anduin or jaina. the fricking alliance. if blizzard used all the narrative elements that the alliance have it would be far, far more richier and make every single character better.
i am fine with losing if it is actually used to develop the faction, but i don’t feel satisfied with what they gave us in MoP And BfA.
For example, in both ocassions the warchiefs were taken care by horde characters, thrall killed garrosh and not jaina and saurfang had a literal 4K cinematic of his mak’gora while the alliance was just… a cardboard behind, an extra. how do you think that make me feel? if not a stupid extra who gets their stuff destroyed and not having neither true develop, spotlight or revenge. We had none.
Either of those 3 are good choices.
i am sorry that not much has changed. i stay firm in my bellief that the horde faction deserves to be punished for what they have done.
8 Likes
Just kill factions in 10.0 so we can all lose things together and hold hands while doing so.
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It’s because they need their stupid “OH MY GOSH!” moments to woo and wow the players. And lore and story be damned to fill this quota. As we’ve seen, they’re willing to bastardize an entire faction and kill off an entire race to do it.
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It’s not that you believe it’s deserved. It’s just that we’ve explained over and over again why that’s not going to work.
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The bitter side of me questions how badly BFA really was for some people if they’re still at a point where they’d actually be happy with the story from here on out if it went another direction. It couldn’t have broken them that much if they still have some hope for it.
1 Like
So you’re calling for a large group of players to be punished for the incompetence of the writers?
You just said in this thread that you would be fine if the Alliance didn’t win all the time or destroy the Horde, you just want an Alliance-focused story. Why are you advocating to hurt a large group of players when you don’t even need to in order to feel more satisfied with the story?
16 Likes
Long post incoming, please bear with, 
Personally, I feel it’s not a matter of making either side suffer a loss. That just leaves both factions and the players equally miserable. Ofc, Blizzard could do that. But I just don’t know how effective that would be in terms of pleasing everyone.
Instead I’d rather see stuff that leaves both in a place to feel good about themselves. Though, there are those that think seeing faction get a win = their faction getting a loss. To which I say, we are all welcome to our own opinions!
But for myself these are some of my ideas, and unfortunately if something like this did happen it wouldn’t be until 10.0 and we get our rumored “time skip” coming out of Shadowlands. Because right now, this kind of stuff wouldn’t fit the “rule of cool”, though it would go a long way towards showing a changed Azeroth truly with a cycle that has in fact, been broken.
Rebuilding that is actually depicted in game
Players need to be shown actual the rebuilding of their races depicted in-game. In other words, actual change in the game world. A Twitter tweet or mention in some novel is not enough.
Ask yourself this; in 1000 years, and in the context of the aftermath of the 4th War, what do you see as the legacy of (x) race? This goes for every race but for brevity’s sake I’m going to focus on just the Night Elves and Forsaken here;
Night Elves
For the Night Elves, I would want to see their legacy as that of rebuilding and resiliency. Two invasions by the Burning Legion, a world-shattering Cataclysm, Qiraji conflicts, and now the War of Thorns. Is this the event that breaks them? I would hope not. I’d want to see them rebuilding around Hyjal, resettling Darkshore, bolstering defenses in Ashenvale, with in-game quests to convey this. Night Elves also need to start making babies (sorry, Galactica reference if you kids even are familiar with that, ).
But you want to break the cycle? Have the Alliance and Horde working together in Ashenvale to solve their problems. An Alliance questgiver at the Mor’shan Ramparts. An Orc questgiver at Raynewood Retreat. Obviously no scrap of parchment will hold anyone back if that’s what the writers choose. But this would be a step in the right direction.
Forsaken
For the Forsaken, ideas of lost faction identity would be where I would start. Are we the worst parts of Sylvanas? Or better than that? If you had to boil down the core of rolling a Forsaken in Vanilla what would it be? And how would you translate that to quests and story in-game?
Just to get the ball rolling, one could say 3 core aspects are freedom to live, building trusting relationships with other races (of the Horde), and doing what the living cannot. In 1000 years, what should the legacy of the Forsaken be and how do you achieve that in-game?
Why not a fully rebuilt and cleansed Tirisfal Glades, Silverpine Forest, Eastern Plaguelands and Western Plaguelands? Forsaken don’t (really) need to sleep; why not show this trait in a quest? You could have one where they’re assisting the Cenarion Circle up in the EPL helping rebuild the area as part of a “night shift” when everyone else has to sleep.
Forsaken don’t need to eat. But a rebuilt EPL and WPL could supply food and resources to the rest of the Horde and that would go a long way towards building trusting relationships with allies.
Diplomatic relations
If the Alliance and Horde really wish to prevent any more disastrous conflicts from erupting in the future then I see no reason why they shouldn’t at the very least set up embassies in the other faction’s capitals. A Horde embassy in Stormwind. An Alliance embassy in Orgrimmar. You want to break the cycle? These would help. I don’t even think you’d need any quests associated with them (though I wouldn’t mind them) just showing them in-game would reinforce the idea that times have changed.
In other words, I would like to see a whole new Azeroth. It’s not that I don’t care about Shadowlands. But I care about Azeroth far more.
9 Likes
In the end, it was to be expected once Blizzard decided to make the Horde the villains of the expansion. I mean, the only pot they ever write was for the bad buy to pull some big evil act that make things seem desperate until the plucky heroes rally.
WoD - opening the gate to invade Azeroth, Legion - routing the heroes of Azeroth at Broken Shore, Shadowlands- Sylvanas breaking death and tearing the sky open. And in BfA, Teldrassil.
When posters were asking the Horde be written as evil, this is what they were asking for.
I don’t think they did it to deliberately make people unhappy. So nothing to “forgive”. But it does fill me with dismay that the Blizzard could have thought it was a good. I mean, if they are that out of touch…
You realize that will never happen, right? Blizzard is obsessed with the faction conflict. That’s why the factions still exist.