Lor'themar spoilers

In Dalaran, presumably. His loyalties have always been to Dalaran first, Silvermoon second, and Horde a distant third at best.

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Rommath is way more morally grey than Lor’themar, but he doesn’t really like Sylvanas from what I can tell. Remember when she blackmailed Lor’themar and Rommath got really pissed?

Liadrin would probably stand by Lor’themar. Before Lor’themar decided to support Saurfang I could see her going either way but now? Not really.

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I still think this will all be moot and that Sylvanas will turn on the Horde in some form. My guess now is that the rebels reveal a plot with her working with either the Naga or N’zoth and she loses all support instantly.

Probably still with the Tirisgarde and recovering from that incident in Tel’anor.

They won’t touch Liadrin. She is our token Paladin that they role out whenever they do light related content. Rommath isn’t so protected but it doesn’t quite fit his past attitude to Sylvanas. Then again after the Voss 180 anything is possible.

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I think that should be a signature move. Next time a character has a complete rewrite, we can call it a “Voss 180.” (If they keep going back and forth, it’s a Jaina Flip-Flop.)

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Treason against who exactly?

The Kirin Tor.

In case of a holy crusade, break glass, i love it.

Um the sunreavers are magisters of silver moon sent to aid dalaran at request of aethas. They aren’t subject to the Kirin’Tor’s laws and while there were those that aided in Garrosh’s plot in all likelihood most new nothing about it and the evidence is there. You have elite magisters of silver moon being taken completely off guard by jaina’s purge they weren’t preparing for a throw down with the Kirin’Tor most were caught and killed in the streets or arrested. Had the entirety of the sunreavers been complicit in Garrosh’s plot it wouldn’t have been a purge it would have been a battle (granted they would have likely lost due to the sheer numbers disadvantage). The purge was unjustified and those that weren’t killed outright were thrown in prison without a trial. How is that justice?

Spiritwalker Ussoh: I saw a vision of Baine. He was imprisoned. Suffering. Surrounded by enemies.
Spiritwalker Ussoh: A figure emerged from the shadows. Angry. Vengeful. The warchief.
Spiritwalker Ussoh: She spoke but a word, and Baine’s life… flickered out.
Spiritwalker Ussoh: The spirits whisper that this vision will come to pass before the next sunrise.
Lor’themar: By the Sunwell… We have to stop this!
Lor’themar: In the end, we all must choose our path. And that choice will have consequences.
Lor’themar: Baine Bloodhoof represents all that is best in the Horde. We cannot stand by and let his light be snuffed out.
Lor’themar: But know this: When the warchief learns of our defiance, her wrath will be swift… and terrible

Mutilating yourself to send pieces of yourself to Anduin?
Exiling your people for defending your land from Alliance invasion?
Assuaging the Alliance that they were correct to invade Horde land and kill Horde citizens?

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Yes. All of it.

“To be the best of the Horde you have to hate the Horde”

-Blizzard, probably.

I’d bet all my dog’s toys that this change was pushed by Golden because the original didn’t praise Baine enough, and we all know that Baine is the only Horde character she likes.

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Some classic BfA dialogue here. Baine has nearly nothing in common with either Lor’themar or the Blood Elves. And whatever else he might be, Lor’themar is a constant champion and advocate for his people - why is he professing the standard of Horde values to be someone whose approach to politics and life in general is so different to the one we know he personally believes to be best? This makes no sense coming out of his mouth, it’s absolute tripe being forced into the narrative despite the reality that people experiencing the narrative can see with their own damned eyes.

Like, forget that I disagree that Baine is the best the Horde has to offer. Even if that was true, it would still be idiotic for Lor’themar, who is on record as being willing to put his people before his own honor and principles. Something Baine has never been willing to do.

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Nah it was pushed by the people here, who complained about how the old didnt make sense cause sylvanas helped the belves

Maybe because he does not want his people to be led by a genocidal maniac? Lor’themar is pragmatism without resorting to flawed “end justifies any means, even if we don’t really want that end (wiping out Alliance races) or the suffering that comes from those means”. We need principles, or we ultimately become fine with avoidable suffering. Principles are also a good thing for a people. They help make the world worth living in.

Right.

Your words are all words that make sense when put together. They express sane ideas.

But they don’t make the words coming out of Lor’themar’s mouth make any more sense from him. Because he’s not saying any of that. He’s saying Baine represents all that is best in the Horde. And even if we accept that this statement is adjacent in meaning to what you typed, that still doesn’t mean it makes sense coming out of Lor’themar’s mouth.

You’re telling me why he might hold a pro-Baine sentiment or agree with the cause of liberating him. But I understand those things. My complaint is with the fact that the sentiment he is using to express that thought does not match him as a character.

It’d be like Anduin saying that Tyrande represents all that is best in the Alliance. The vengeance-bent, grief-wracked priestess threatening the cohesion of the Alliance might well be someone he respects, and her cause may well be one for whom he has considerable sympathy and even personal endorsement (even if not political or practical), but to say that ANDUIN would call her, at this moment, the embodiment of ‘all that is best’ in the Alliance… does not add up.

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Baine isnt vengeance bent

Well spotted.

The ways that this is not appropriate dialogue for Lor’themar are not the same ways that my example would be inappropriate for Anduin to say.

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