Lore-abiding RP?

I think that trying to present it as that there’s somehow one set fixed golden irrefutable version of the “lore” and everything else is breaking it is somewhat of an overstatement.

It’s one thing if you’re dealing with someone who’s like, “My character’s name is James Bond and he was sent to this universe by a Time Ray used by the great villain Magneto but when I got here I found out that I’m actually the king of this Storm-Wind place so you need to treat me as such.”

It’s entirely another if you’re dealing with someone who’s like, “Hello, I’m a Death Knight and this is my wife” and then have a WoW Wiki battle where you have to dredge out receipts from a dozen different stories, quests, throwaway NPC lines and Q&As that say or don’t say that Death Knights can still have emotions and attachments. That fight is something that damages the “health” of the RP scene much more than people being flexible in gray areas.

The lore is a mess. It conflicts. It was hodgepodged together like a vast ramshackle Howl’s Moving Castle of contributions from quest writers, developers, third-party writers for books and stories and various other random people over time, many of whom are no longer at the company and can’t explain their intent or clarify anymore. It has also been my personal experience that anyone who tries to present themselves as a lore “expert” who knows the “real” lore in every given situation is almost always relying on half-remembered bits that they picked up on through word of mouth and imagining what makes sense in their head (a.k.a. “headcanon”) , or they’ve fixated on something from old lore that was subsequently retconned or clarified.

At the end of the day, though, the lore doesn’t need defending. There’s no point. Blizzard doesn’t care that much, they don’t even care if someone wants to James Bond, the King of Stormwind it up. Why should we? All rabbling amongst ourselves does, turning it into a one-upsmanship game of My Character Is More Lore Accurate Than Yours, is divide the community and turn people away from the hobby as they feel judged and disregarded.

There’s nothing wrong with personally preferring to stick with what your understanding of the lore is as closely as possible for your characters and stories. That’s totally fine! I actually largely prefer to do the same. I find that working within the framework of the story and events as given, according to my understanding of them, is a fun challenge even when the developers like to randomly throw in a new twist like a three-year timeskip that I will die mad about. But, a person’s personal preferences should end at the tip of their own nose.

If someone is playing something that you don’t want to go with, just move on and do something else. There’s no need to argue with them about the “accuracy” of what they’re doing, and more importantly, they haven’t done anything wrong just because they choose to be more flexible with the lore and setting or even reject it entirely. They’ll get people to play with them, or they won’t. There’s no crime in having different preferences.

Just move along and find people whose preferences and interpretation of the lore aligns with yours. That’s one of the glorious things about MG Alliance being so populated, is that no matter what you want to do you can almost always find a group of people who want to do the same.

12 Likes

All of my characters are specifically crafted to adhere as seamlessly as I can make them to the current lore, I typically just avoid RP with those who craft characters that break it in (imo) extreme ways. Just a personal preference, no bashing.

If you/your characters are in Stormwind or the Kaldorei lands, you might find Anasarinda. Maybe shoot up a conversation with her. She doesn’t talk a whole lot, but she won’t bite.

2 Likes

Warcraft lore has so many holes in it that someone’s idea of lore-abiding can be entirely different than someone else’s. Much of RP has always been building on what exists and trying to fix those gaps with something that makes sense.

I’d be interested to hear what your definition of lore-abiding versus lore-breaking is, honestly, where that line is put. There are plenty of outright lorebreaking and logicbreaking characters in Stormwind RP, sure, I tend to leave them be… but they’ve been around as long as I’ve been RPing, alongside those that RP concepts that fit easily within the canon.

The huge overhauls to the lore in the last 8 years or so also makes it difficult for people to find what is considered lore-abiding. Take Orcs, for example, a flagship Warcraft race, who were for much of WoW’s life a ‘peaceful, shamanistic race’ corrupted by the Legion and stoked into what was basically a religious war to wipe out the Draenei. But Chronicle and even WoD showcased lore that contradicts this, retcons it to a large degree… but then they also say Chronicle is from the PoV of the Titans and is thus unreliable.

So what is the lore-abiding take? And that’s just one example, of what is literally a bedrock race of the franchise.

2 Likes

Despite its problems–and I’m with you all, there are many (the post above mine, for example, has good points)–I’d submit that the franchise’s lore is largely coherent. I’d also say that the franchise’s lore problems don’t detract from it being THE prime source–the objective setting.

In my opinion, there are simply things that we can’t play with IF we wish to be lore-abiding. For example, you can’t be Arthas’ son. You also can’t role-play as the third forgotten Stormrage, the King of all dwarves, Lor’themar’s wife/husband, etc… If you do those obvious things, you’re not lore-abiding by any reasonable standard. Based on that, we have a means test for what’s lore-abiding and what isn’t–we have a standard to work forward from. What is lore-breaking is simply that which violates the rasonable standard.

Now, playing with gray area is fine–it’s LITERALLY what we are doing at all times when role-playing. THere is NOTHING wrong with playing with gray area. Be a noble of Stormwind, for example; just don’t be Varian’s secret other son.

In short, there are some things that are obviously lore-breaking and some things that are playing with gray area. When your lore contradicts the reasonable standard set by the objective lore, then we’ve come to a distinction.

And again, to be clear, if you want to RP a character that is lore-breaking, awesome; it’s your sub. fee. Just let people know that that is what you’re doing so the other person has a choice to go along with what you are doing or depart.

8 Likes

Warcraft lore is a liquid. It maintains its form until it needs to take a different form, then it does.

What are the specifics you’ve seen? I’m willing to bet 99% of the stuff you’ve seen walking around stormwind is technically lore friendly. It might not be common, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in lore.

The issue isn’t the rper, it’s the medium. WoW is not a good medium for a strict lore to play from. Its constantly bending its own rules, with certain lore points sometimes getting retconned as soon as the following patch.

Warcraft has only made its lore more flexible over the years. I learned like, last week, that all of these vampyr darkfallen rpers are totally canonical for the first time. I genuinely thought it was some non lore fad, but they exist. As it turns out, pretty much anything can exist in wow.

The danger is in saying “that couldn’t possibly happen.” It’s wow, and anything can happen. We’ve all seen the most ridiculous stuff while leveling through zones. If it can exist out in the world, why can’t it exist in the RP space?

What’s safer for you to say is you don’t want to rp with new lore past a certain point. Whatever examples you might provide, I’m sure that at least most of them are actually within existing lore for the game. It just isn’t lore you like. Which is fine, but it’s worth calling it what it actually is.

7 Likes

Yeah, I tend to try to walk the middle line, myself. I think there’s a lot of room for healthy theorycrafting and cultural headcanons here and there – some popular draenei headcanons that were eventually canonized come to mind. But I’m sometimes slightly offput by some of the crazier examples of people stretching lore a bit. Nothing against them at all, but it can be awkward to try to build RP off two entirely different interpretations of the world and lore.

If I see you around I’ll be sure to approach!

This is a much better way of putting it than I did. Flexibility is an essential part of Warcraft lore, and you open up a really nasty can of worms if you try litigating what’s acceptable in RP based on arguments like canonical representation of a certain idea (because the misconception that RPers should ever be seen as representatives of a significant population trend in-universe is very annoying imho).

Warcraft lore is incredibly expansive and over-the-top. I think “lore-friendly” is sometimes an unintentionally elitist way of saying, “Pushing the boundaries of what I would expect and want my character to interact with in a given RP area”, which while definitely fair is a consequence of public RP that has to be taken in moderation. Some people definitely go way overboard with it, of course, and they demand direct quotes from the expanded universe to justify innocent headcanons.

One example I always think of is when someone ran into the Lamb just to make a dig at the demon hunters there, something along the lines of “The type of demon you consumed doesn’t change your attributes/powers” - and in my opinion it’s actually a fair and creatively constructive takeaway from the Illidan novel that there is a lot of influence in how fel corruption manifests in your character, since there was such a diverse range of demon hunters with their own strange predilections & personal whims. It’s a very innocent, and arguably lore-friendly way to build complexity and nuance into an otherwise pretty one-note role. And with such a vague setting so open to being radically changed and developed upon as the game progresses, being too serious about it all seems like it would defeat the purpose of what makes WoW RP so appealing.

Sorry for the tangent, just wanted to add my two cents since you raised a good point there.

A very good point. I think things within the boundaries of lore are perfectly fine.

For example, I’ve seen some who claimed only males can be druids with the Kaldorei but I honestly think the same person who came up with that trend was pissed off by the Kaldorei having an all-women band of warriors (Sentinels). :joy: There is no lore INSISTING that is the case.

The things that bug me are when things from other fandoms are drug in. For example, I’ve seen mages use the term Auror. Which is from Harry Potter. And then you have the dragon rpers who are apparently godlike status within the flights. THOSE are things I avoid 100%.

2 Likes

Unless those folk are RP’ing before the Third War, we have plenty of examples of male nelf priests and female nelf druids, so that’s just silly on their part.

3 Likes

Precisely. There’s even an archeological find about it!

2 Likes

The only lore-breaky RP concepts I tend to avoid are characters that are direct descendants or very close to big-name lore characters (Anduin’s concubine I’ve seen more than once kldsjlga) or isekai’d characters. Obviously, there can be exceptions to the rule (brood to wild gods/dragons for example) and some can be done well, but the ones I’ve seen generally… aren’t.

I will say, I do enjoy RPing with people who try to abide by the lore or have lore reasonings for their characters, even if out there. Like, I RP a Bwonsamdi worshipping tauren which, from the outside, looks lore-breaking, but she had a very long RP journey and backstory to get to that point. But, everyone is entitled to do whatever they want with their sub. So long as they’re having fun and aren’t ruining the fun of others ovo

3 Likes

It’s so nice to know I’m not the only one who feels this way. It’s exactly why I’ve just lost interest in WoW (as far as RP). I don’t think there’s much that could be done short of some grand death and revival of the RP community to return to it’s roots, and for some that’s fun, but it’s exactly why I just quit and stopped caring about RP. The joy is gone, and all that’s left is what you said.

1 Like

It’s also worth noting that RPers very often just… Make stuff up. Head canon is the ammunition of “lore elitists” far more often than actual canon lore.
Disliking the lore is fair and makes sense. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t the lore.

6 Likes

Agreed.

Ask someone if a worgen who gets the Ritual of Balance can transfer the curse through a bite and 9/10 you’ll be told ‘Yeah, the ritual makes it so only the blood can transfer the curse’.

That’s 100% fanon. It is NEVER stated that the Ritual of Balance cleanses a worgen’s bite. It’s just that sane worgen don’t bite because, well, why would you actually want to transfer your curse to someone else?

3 Likes

Let’s be honest.
You were a leader in that drama club, Systar.

卄乇ㄥㄥ ㄚ乇卂卄 乃尺ㄖㄒ卄乇尺
Totally agree with the entire post.

Lore is stimky poopy. Blizzard is stimky poopy. RP Elder Scrolls lore in WoW for maximum fun.

Nowhere is this more annoyingly prevelant than in groups of death knights who insist that if you aren’t a raging emotionless dooshcannoe, you’re playing the class incorrectly, as if there weren’t dozens of NPCs that directly defy their random fanon logic. That and the whole “generation” thing… there’s more. I could go on for a long time. Needless to say anyone who buys into the fanon isn’t very fun to play around and this class is profoundly misunderstood thanks to it.

5 Likes

TO BE fair; the most prominent figures often speak for themselves on that. To give the best TLDR I can (And exceptions DO exist) - I also apologize if some info is off, I’m not a walking lore encyclopedia and part of this may be fanoncial in some way, but generally Gens are divided by the ‘era’ or creation of such DKs:

First Gen DKs: Not even ‘DKs’ moreso than they are orcish warlocks in human knight bodies. Almost all of them are dead or turned into liches by Kil’Jaeden. If you’re a First Gen, you don’t exist as an orc or undead knight - pure and simple.
Second Gen DKs: Your Arthas folks or disillusioned paladins - basically folk who forsake the light and embrace undeath and its magicks for power. Generally have been portaryed as unemotional or emotionally dulled characters, though some may still have emotions that are clear and precise - creative liberty comes up here.
Third Gen DKs: The ‘WoTLK’ generation - generally DKs brought into undeath rather than willingly embracing it. One can presume that Third Gen DKs probably have a hard time emoting or controlling urges of bloodlust or whatnot as the Eternal Hunger compels them to drench their hands in the blood of something living. While a part of this is fanon, it’s important to consider Third Gen DKs were the ‘Player DKs’ for a majority of time. It is also important to consider many of these DKs were raised with principles of optimal and merciless execution of goals - we can pin that on mental trauma caused by conditioning, and once more do we get some creative liberty.
Fourth Gen DKs: Your BFA and todays DKs - to be honest there’s not much lore for em’, all we know is that they’re given the choice to return to the grave or have a second chance to defend Azeroth from various threats. They’re probably the LEAST ‘emotionless dooshcannoe’ of the bunch as a given considering the circumstances of the above generations - only real thing you’d have to come to terms with is the fact you’re a walking corpse, and that’s about it.

Not all Death Knights are cruel and unemotional, but many were raised or molded by the ethos and governance of the Scourge - and had a lot of ‘weaknesses’ bred out to ensure optimal bloodshed. That being said give me more DKs just struggling to contain their emotions please, give me the inverse and have a DK who’s way too happy, and then gets WAY too mad at stuff.

5 Likes

I have like 3 undead characters and all 3 had various struggles to contain or control their emotions. :joy: One I know isn’t as active but their character ‘seems’ emotionless but isn’t, but merely wears a mask.

But that’s like 4 out of the whole realm. >.>

People also need to remember rage, anger, etc are emotions and Arthas DKs were designed to have all of those.

All that I am: anger, cruelty, vengeance - I bestow upon you, my chosen knight.

2 Likes

I am fully aware of all the stuff you just posted. What I’m saying is that it is not canonical to refer to a death knight in this way ICly. Literally nowhere does anyone say “I’m a this gen,” or “I’m a that gen”. It doesn’t exist. But for some reason, it’s the fanon that has been accepted by the community… but the point is that it is exactly that; FANON, and yet many people have taken it as canon. It’s not. Dumb thing to be picky about? Maybe, but it’s part of the wider issue of assumptions being made about the class, and ideas being pushed on people based on something other than facts. I don’t like people pushing other people with “this is how it is” when that is NOT how it is, ya feel me?

Also, on a lighter note, Aran’s a bit of a himbo. Kinda gullible, very serious and dour but generally doing his best to help in whatever ways he can while still dealing with the whole… drive to murder things, and having a very short temper and a lot of misplaced passion. He’s by far one of my favorite characters who has seen sooo much growth over the many years he’s existed. At this point I feel like his story has more or less ended, but he had a good run and he’s still fun to play. ^^

2 Likes