Lordaeron from WC3 era, most moronic kingdom ever?

[Telitrois-silvermoon]

The amount of mistakes various Lordaeron officials made in WC3 are not only extensive, but they were also serious and absurd in scope. The following is but a small taste of their idiocy.

1. Leaving an entire fleet of warships practically unguarded. The fleet Thrall captured, which was big enough to carry his entire Horde, had no guards directly assigned to it, and only a handful of guards in the general vicinity.

2. King Terenas going “meh” to early reports of the plague, and insisting that Quarentine measures NOT be taken, despite strong advice from the Kirin Tor for a Quarentine.

3. Andorhal officials not noticing they were distributing biohazardous organic matter, rather than grain, as food for the peasantry. The Peasants being stupid enough to eat biohazardous grain, which by that point had to have had some signs of the contamination it had.

4. Arthas “kill em all” Menethil at Stratholme, wanting to kill everyone, and thus lose the support of Uther and Jaina, instead of putting the city under Quarentine.

5. Uther “the dim” Lightbringer, putting loyalty to the crown above even the safety of Lordaeron’s people, not putting a stop to Arthas at Stratholme when he had the chance. He didnt have to kill him to do this, being such a veteran fighter he and his knights could disarm Arthas and imprison him, and easily beat his loyalist soldiers, most of whom weren’t knights.

6. The Entire capital lets Arthas walk in all the way to the Throne room, never once questioning the fact he looks as crazy as Jack Nicholson did in the latter parts of the shinning. Never mind the spooky unholy armor and sword he has, and his body guards dont look quite right either…

7. The Entire Silver Hand is defeated in detail by Arthas, piece by piece, even though they surely could have beaten Arthas if they all rallied around Uther and attacked Arthas at once. Arthas barely won that fight vs Uther, he aint beating 5-6 War Veteran Paladins at once, their combined soldiers could also hold Arthas forces at bay long enough for this to happen.

8. This entire problem could have been solved early on with mass cremations. Even a peasant should have been able to come to that realization.

9. Some one let Jaina, some undergraduate student at Dalaran, take large Alliance forces and a fleet with her, even though she has no authority to do that. It worked out well that she did, but thats no excuse for letting just anyone take chunks of your army and navy!

10. I deduct massive amounts of points from Lordaeron’s competency rating for having people like Garithos and Aedelas Blackmoore in positions of power, when really they should have been in chains. Seriously, Terenas’ agents should have early on discovered the corruption and evil things Aedelas was doing, including raping some clerks daughter, and Garithos must have shown signs of his racism and bigotry even before WC3, traits that cannot be allowed in a multi-racial Alliance.

[Kastrieren-moon-guard (Kastrieren)]

Leaving an entire fleet of warships practically unguarded. The fleet Thrall captured, which was big enough to carry his entire Horde, had no guards directly assigned to it, and only a handful of guards in the general vicinity.

Thrall killed all the guards that captures the Warsong. Having those ships there just shows how poweful Lordaeron was and how insignificant the Horde was in terms of population and power.

King Terenas going “meh” to early reports of the plague, and insisting that Quarentine measures NOT be taken, despite strong advice from the Kirin Tor for a Quarentine.

King Teranas refuses to imprison his own people due to rumors.

Andorhal officials not noticing they were distributing biohazardous organic matter, rather than grain, as food for the peasantry. The Peasants being stupid enough to eat biohazardous grain, which by that point had to have had some signs of the contamination it had.

It was grain bruh. There was no sigh of contamination. People only knew that grain labeled from Andorhol caused peasants to turn.

Arthas “kill em all” Menethil at Stratholme, wanting to kill everyone, and thus lose the support of Uther and Jaina, instead of putting the city under Quarentine.

Quarantine the city and the uninfected get torn apart by scourge and raised as Undead. Jaina brought no soldiers with her, Uther was only in commad of the Silver Hand.

Uther “the dim” Lightbringer, putting loyalty to the crown above even the safety of Lordaeron’s people, not putting a stop to Arthas at Stratholme when he had the chance. He didnt have to kill him to do this, being such a veteran fighter he and his knights could disarm Arthas and imprison him, and easily beat his loyalist soldiers, most of whom weren’t knights.

Uther didn’t have the authority over a direct order from the prince. Only King Teranas could have overruled Arthas.

The Entire capital lets Arthas walk in all the way to the Throne room, never once questioning the fact he looks as crazy as Jack Nicholson did in the latter parts of the shinning. Never mind the spooky unholy armor and sword he has, and his body guards dont look quite right either…

Deployment does that to people. Thousand yard stare.

The Entire Silver Hand is defeated in detail by Arthas, piece by piece, even though they surely could have beaten Arthas if they all rallied around Uther and attacked Arthas at once. Arthas barely won that fight vs Uther, he aint beating 5-6 War Veteran Paladins at once, their combined soldiers could also hold Arthas forces at bay long enough for this to happen.

Entire Silver Hand faced the Scourge and couldn’t defeat them.

This entire problem could have been solved early on with mass cremations. Even a peasant should have been able to come to that realization.

Cremation doesn’t seem to be a human tradition. Straholme survivors were doing it anyways.

I deduct massive amounts of points from Lordaeron’s competency rating for having people like Garithos and Aedelas Blackmoore in positions of power, when really they should have been in chains. Seriously, Terenas’ agents should have early on discovered the corruption and evil things Aedelas was doing, including raping some clerks daughter, and Garithos must have shown signs of his racism and bigotry even before WC3, traits that cannot be allowed in a multi-racial Alliance.

Just nitpicking and being a hater. Garithos’ racism wasn’t a problem since he mostly lead human units. Blackmoore was like head of the internment camps.

Some one let Jaina, some undergraduate student at Dalaran, take large Alliance forces and a fleet with her, even though she has no authority to do that. It worked out well that she did, but thats no excuse for letting just anyone take chunks of your army and navy!

Jaina has the gravitas for being Dalaran’s star pupil and being a Proudmoore. The survivors of Lordaeron rallied around her, King Teranas was already dead, Lordaeron was no more.

[Exacitor-wyrmrest-accord]

Leaving an entire fleet of warships practically unguarded. The fleet Thrall captured, which was big enough to carry his entire Horde, had no guards directly assigned to it, and only a handful of guards in the general vicinity.

(Commentary): I’m not sure two or three ships constitutes a fleet. Likewise during that mission Thrall gathers the entirety of the Horde (or what it was at that time), and attacks to leave. The ships were indeed guarded. Also I don’t know that they were Warships and not just cargo/transport ships.

King Terenas going “meh” to early reports of the plague, and insisting that Quarentine measures NOT be taken, despite strong advice from the Kirin Tor for a Quarentine.

(Statement): The people of Lordaeron were already in a state of civil unrest due to the high taxes levied on them to maintain the orcish internment camps. Quarantine for something that had no proof at the time would have been foolish.

Andorhal officials not noticing they were distributing biohazardous organic matter, rather than grain, as food for the peasantry. The Peasants being stupid enough to eat biohazardous grain, which by that point had to have had some signs of the contamination it had.

(Statement): Unit Exacitor was not aware the average Lordaeron Citizen was trained to detect and identify magical effects that were not visible to the naked eye. If this is true, then your statement holds merit.

Arthas “kill em all” Menethil at Stratholme, wanting to kill everyone, and thus lose the support of Uther and Jaina, instead of putting the city under Quarentine.

(Statement): Pragmatically, the decision was correct; sacrifice the few to save the many. Morally, it was reprehensible.

Uther “the dim” Lightbringer, putting loyalty to the crown above even the safety of Lordaeron’s people, not putting a stop to Arthas at Stratholme when he had the chance. He didnt have to kill him to do this, being such a veteran fighter he and his knights could disarm Arthas and imprison him, and easily beat his loyalist soldiers, most of whom weren’t knights.

(Statement): A battle against Arthas at that moment would’ve only made the situation all the worst, as a city would be transformed into undead with only a weakened force of soldiers present, likely unable to contain them. The undead would then pour into the countryside like a plague. Although Uther did not agree with Arthas’ actions, taking direct action against Arthas would’ve been the worst possible choice.

The Entire capital lets Arthas walk in all the way to the Throne room, never once questioning the fact he looks as crazy as Jack Nicholson did in the latter parts of the shinning. Never mind the spooky unholy armor and sword he has, and his body guards dont look quite right either…

(Commentary): I’ve got nothing. I suppose his attire could’ve been taken as a sign of penance for his actions, to show he mourns those he killed at Stratholme, despite ultimately being victorious.

The Entire Silver Hand is defeated in detail by Arthas, piece by piece, even though they surely could have beaten Arthas if they all rallied around Uther and attacked Arthas at once. Arthas barely won that fight vs Uther, he aint beating 5-6 War Veteran Paladins at once, their combined soldiers could also hold Arthas forces at bay long enough for this to happen.

(Statement): Arthas moved too quickly for the Silver Hand forces to regroup and provide a united front against him.

This entire problem could have been solved early on with mass cremations. Even a peasant should have been able to come to that realization.

(Statement): A reagent used by Death Knight player characters included corpse dust. Ashes can, no doubt, be used by necromancers as effectively as corpses.

Some one let Jaina, some undergraduate student at Dalaran, take large Alliance forces and a fleet with her, even though she has no authority to do that. It worked out well that she did, but thats no excuse for letting just anyone take chunks of your army and navy!

(Statement): Jaina Proudmoore, Apprentice to Archmage Antonidas, Head of the Council of Six, and also the daughter of Lord Daelin Proudmore, Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras, had by merit of station and birth, the necessary influence to make such an expedition.

I deduct massive amounts of points from Lordaeron’s competency rating for having people like Garithos and Aedelas Blackmoore in positions of power, when really they should have been in chains. Seriously, Terenas’ agents should have early on discovered the corruption and evil things Aedelas was doing, including raping some clerks daughter, and Garithos must have shown signs of his racism and bigotry even before WC3, traits that cannot be allowed in a multi-racial Alliance.

(Commentary): I’m not even sure how to address this one. The idea that the King of a massive kingdom should know everything every single one of his subjects does is laughable.

[Etheldald-ragnaros (Etheldald)]

(Commentary): I’m not even sure how to address this one. The idea that the King of a massive kingdom should know everything every single one of his subjects does is laughable.

and plus the only reason why garithos was left in a position of power is because everyone else was either dead or left, like calia and jaina.

the fact of the matter is that garithos was nearly at the botton of the chain of command.

[Caedmun-moon-guard (Caedmun)]

Interesting take OP.

I’ve always blamed Medivh in some capacity. He blows into the throne chamber in the middle of a debate, doesn’t explain himself in any real capacity, makes a contextually crazy demand of the king, and then is like “WELL I TRIED.”, and peaces out.

Granted, he tried other parties, but if the whole of your argument amounts to things usually reserved for being written on sandwich board signs worn by insightful people screaming in a park, well, it’s a bit of a miracle that anyone listened to your butt at all.

[Benedikt-emerald-dream]

Andorhal officials not noticing they were distributing biohazardous organic matter, rather than grain, as food for the peasantry. The Peasants being stupid enough to eat biohazardous grain, which by that point had to have had some signs of the contamination it had.

I’m pretty sure the grain being green and haunted was just visual shorthand. WC3 had pretty cartoony graphics and being an RTS was played zoomed out. Everything’s pretty exaggerated in terms of visual design.

[Ximothy-silvermoon (Ximothy)]

I’m not gonna lie Telitrois, a lot of this sounds forced. Like you wanted there to be a bunch more reasons than just the couple I think you have a point on.

• Leaving an entire fleet of warships practically unguarded. The fleet Thrall captured, which was big enough to carry his entire Horde, had no guards directly assigned to it, and only a handful of guards in the general vicinity.

They weren’t unguarded, Thrall fought through a base and destroyed several towers to reach them.

• King Terenas going “meh” to early reports of the plague, and insisting that Quarentine measures NOT be taken, despite strong advice from the Kirin Tor for a Quarentine.

The plague were rumours at the time, hence why Terenas didn’t do more than investigate them.

Instituting quarantine based on rumours is going to very quickly get out of hand. So Terenas sent people to investigate instead.

• Andorhal officials not noticing they were distributing biohazardous organic matter, rather than grain, as food for the peasantry. The Peasants being stupid enough to eat biohazardous grain, which by that point had to have had some signs of the contamination it had.

Yeah pretty sure that was just a visual short hand so the player can tell, games do that all the time.

The plagued grains during the Wrath pre-event also had the same visual signs and infected places like Stormwind, Orgrimmar, Undercity, Darnassus, Thunder Bluff, Ironforge, Silvermoon and the Exodar.

So this isn’t just Lordaeron.

• Arthas “kill em all” Menethil at Stratholme, wanting to kill everyone, and thus lose the support of Uther and Jaina, instead of putting the city under Quarentine.

Maybe quarantine would’ve worked. It’s what I would’ve tried. And I think it was the better answer.

He didnt have to kill him to do this, being such a veteran fighter he and his knights could disarm Arthas and imprison him, and easily beat his loyalist soldiers, most of whom weren’t knights

That’s straight up treason, which is a problem cause most of the soldiers there agreed with Arthas and stayed.

Paladins are strong, but they aren’t mary sues who can always win a fight. There’s little to guarantee Uther and his Knights coulda won that fight against the rest of the 1st Legion serving Arthas.

It would’ve led to a bloody brawl, not some snap descision arrest.

• The Entire capital lets Arthas walk in all the way to the Throne room, never once questioning the fact he looks as crazy as Jack Nicholson did in the latter parts of the shinning. Never mind the spooky unholy armor and sword he has, and his body guards dont look quite right either…

… yes? He’s their prince. Did you just want to have a higher number of points, of course they let Arthas walk to the throne room.

• The Entire Silver Hand is defeated in detail by Arthas, piece by piece, even though they surely could have beaten Arthas if they all rallied around Uther and attacked Arthas at once. Arthas barely won that fight vs Uther, he aint beating 5-6 War Veteran Paladins at once, their combined soldiers could also hold Arthas forces at bay long enough for this to happen.

Good news for you, they did that in the book. They condensed the series of battles into one larger one.

Bad news it still failed and only Uther had a chance of actually beating Arthas.

• Some one let Jaina, some undergraduate student at Dalaran, take large Alliance forces and a fleet with her, even though she has no authority to do that. It worked out well that she did, but thats no excuse for letting just anyone take chunks of your army and navy!

They were a) volunteers and b) she did have support of several leaders, such as Antonidas and Darius Crowley, to lead their people across the sea.

Also Jaina wasn’t an undergraduate, she was a full fledge Archmage, considered Antonidas’ heir and was of Proudmoore royalty.

That’s a lot of influence Jaina had even before the Third War.

'sides by the time Jaina left Lordaeron, it was in tatters, Terenas and Uther were dead, Quel’thalas was butchered and Dalaran was on the verge of falling.

There wasn’t exactly a Kingdom of Lordaeron to stop her at the time.

[Fizzer-wyrmrest-accord (Fizzer)]

No offense to your shtick, but do you really quasi-RP all of your definitely-not-in-character posts?

[anon20628998]

how long until we dissolve into ‘is killing people bad’ arguments

[Gornur-nerzhul (Gornur)]

I’ve always blamed Medivh in some capacity. He blows into the throne chamber in the middle of a debate, doesn’t explain himself in any real capacity, makes a contextually crazy demand of the king, and then is like “WELL I TRIED.”, and peaces out.

The Warcraft III level designer David Fried has gone on record that Medivh’s warning to Terenas was extremely vague and that he should’ve mentioned the Burning Legion and orcs as well.

He mentions this during the YouTube video: Warcraft III - Design Insights Highlights 01 : Human Campaign.

[Grandblade-wyrmrest-accord (Grandblade)]

Posting in a Rivendel thread.

If you’re going to swap alts to avoid getting caught, maybe you should try actually constructing an honest argument and spending all your time flexing your weird hate-on for humans in WoW.

[Exacitor-wyrmrest-accord]

No offense to your shtick, but do you really quasi-RP all of your definitely-not-in-character posts?

(Statement): Affirmative.

[Drahliana-earthen-ring (Drahliana)]

The Entire Silver Hand is defeated in detail by Arthas, piece by piece, even though they surely could have beaten Arthas if they all rallied around Uther and attacked Arthas at once. Arthas barely won that fight vs Uther, he aint beating 5-6 War Veteran Paladins at once, their combined soldiers could also hold Arthas forces at bay long enough for this to happen.

Actually … compared to Uther, they’re all Mooks.

[Ximothy-silvermoon (Ximothy)]

No offense to your shtick, but do you really quasi-RP all of your definitely-not-in-character posts?

I think it’s cute. Flavours up the story forum.

Better than fifty shades of salt (that I myself am part of)

[Ardmccloud-frostmourne]

You have to remember the Cult of the Damned was active in Lorderons borders.

If their presence was strong enough they could’ve blocked almost all means of communication between villages being ravaged by the plague and the Capital, leaving them completely in the dark to act against Malganus and Kel’thuzad until it was far too late.

[Thujongo-moon-guard]

In Legion, if you played a warrior, you find out there’s been a C’thraxxi under Lordaeron the entire time. That could explain some of the craziness.

[Yvenathilm-fenris (Yvenathilm)]

Not to mention Deathwing had Terenas uplift the Knights of the Silver Hand into high positions while also brainwashing him into incompetence.

The Old Gods are majorly responsible for Lordaeron’s situation. Considering the Old Gods’ dislike of Death Magic it wouldn’t surprise me if they were behind the northern Eastern Kingdoms’ dislike of Necromancy from before the Scourge even existed(said dislike driving Kel’Thuzad to flee the Eastern Kingdoms and turn to the Scourge)!

[Murdra-wildhammer (Murdra)]

Wasn’t that thing asleep though? Or do Old God, and their minions, make people cuckoo for cocoa puffs even in a dormant state?

[Telitrois-silvermoon]

Well it made the elves go crazy when they were in tirisfal, even though it should have been out cold at that time.

[Faelinthia-moknathal (Faelinthia)]

(Statement): Affirmative.

I imagine all of your posts in HK-47’s voice and I love it.