It’s so fun reading these threads.
It’s so fun reading these threads.
Almost as fun as looking at your 200ilvl guild 5 man fail 10 and 11 keys.
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To be honest I wouldn’t mind the loot system as much if it rewarded you by allowing you to choose an item you want and making it less RNG (every time you don’t get it you get a better chance next time) or if it rewarded something other than 35 anima (which you get 3x that for one world quest…). I’ve ran Mists at least 20+ times, never seen the Unbound Changeling. I have gotten pretty lucky overall (though I have a lot of dungeon runs) but now with fewer upgrades needed below a certain point it feels ridiculous that I’m still grinding the same dungeons praying RNGesus decides to be kind.
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The entire expansions ilvl gap was smaller than a single tier nowadays.
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Nah, you’d only get enjoyment out of that for maybe a minute or two tops.
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Indeed. I think ICC was 245? Compared to naxx with 213
This loot scarcity in raids and M+ dungeons is getting to the point where the game is unfun to play. I full cleared normal Castle Nathria and I got ZERO pieces of loot, ok unlucky I guess. I have ran over 40 m+ dungeons this week trying to get a new weapon, guess what I got ZERO weapon drops and only 4 pieces of loot out of about 30 timed keys. Also, out of the 2 weeks of great vaults, I unlocked all 9 slots then past 2 weeks and I have still not seen a single weapon choice. The only reliable way to get gear is PVP and that is not something I enjoy. I appreciate the PVP vendor and the vault but nerfing the heck out of all other drop rates in the game is making doing content extremely unrewarding and takes away the drive I have to push PVE content. I feel like my character has ZERO gear progression outside of PVP vendors. Many people in my guild are having the same experience and it is sad to see the state of PVE loot systems in Shadowlands.
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ICC was 251 for 10-man, 264 for 25, and 277 for heroic 25 (and 284 from heroic LK). But yeah, 187 for WotLK blues vs 213 for the best loot of the first tier (and 226 from KT) is a much smaller gap than 171 SL blues vs 226 gear from mythic Nathria (and 233 from Denathrius). Maybe M0s now are a better analogue to Wrath heroics, but that still makes the comparison 184-226 instead of 187-213.
That issue started later in Wrath, because that was when they added multiple raid difficulties. It wasn’t just “dungeon gear vs raid gear” anymore, it was “dungeon gear vs raid-10 vs raid-25 vs heroic raid-25”, so the gap from bottom to top got a lot wider, and they had to jump more each tier since they wanted t9 10-man to be as good as t8 hardmode. The ICC dungeons dropped 232 gear, a full 52 ilvls below the best raid items, despite being added in the same patch.
7 m+ and no loot, just makes us stop doing the content all together. They do need to do something about it.
Adding a new currency for m+ and raids would be a fix. the higher the key the more currency you get. As for raids, every boss kill gives an amount. (end seasons resets currency or weekly)
This way, even though you get nothing for 10+ runs, you still feel progress and can buy a piece every 10 runs or so.
Just like PVP vendor, but for PVE.
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Significantly more effort for significantly less reward was always going to be a bitter pill to swallow. Whether it’s ultimately for the good of the game remains to be seen. For my part, I can’t remember ever feeling so burnt out this early in an expansion.
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M+ needs a currency vendor, it’s pretty obvious.
The disparity between PvP and M+ is stark and unwarranted.
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I rammed my head into M+ and I have just about every piece of loot that I need @ iLvl 207 and I’m basically at “the wall”. The only pieces of loot upgrades I can get come from farming 15s+ for 210s or raids for upgrades.
The only major upgrades I’m going to be getting will be coming from the Great Vault which will take a few months to fully gear out if I get lucky on RNG.
It’s kind of borked though because once everyone is at 220+ iLvl… how are new characters or alts even going to catch up?
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They won’t.
I like that Blizzard tried to make gearing up feel better with the PVP vendor, but in doing so they have ruined Shadowlands PVE content for many people. Nothing is worse than feeling you are wasting your time playing major parts of the game because the excitement of getting a reward at the end is virtually nonexistent. Also, the change to item level from mythic plus is awful. Pushing mythic 15’s (if you are able to) will get you to ilvl 210 after 100’s of hours with the way drop rates are. After that your only chance of better loot is from the great vault unless you mythic raid. So basically once you get to ilvl 210 your done, unless you mythic raid or get a better piece from the vault once a week. Atleast in BFA the ilvl of gear from the end of a 10 or 15 key was close to max ilvl. I have never done this since BC but maybe it is time to skip this expansion, unless some meaningful changes are made I cant see myself doing this much longer, the state of gearing up is just not fun for me.
Not so sure about that - Since we had badges there that guaranteed you SOMETHING eventually.
Anyways, he’s 35 Anima for your 54 anima mission you just sent a few followers on that rewards you 30 total anima for a net gain of 11 anima. Have fun!
It was a double-combo. They added multiple raid difficulties, which by itself might have been OK if each one was treated as its own progression*. What they comboed it with was the idea that every tier was a complete reset, invalidating the previous tier, and turbo-jumping people into the new tier. So where Ulduar was at 226/232, ToC HAD to start at 232 and end at 258, and then ICC HAD to start at 251 to 277.
They amplified on that last point even further, which is where we ended up where we are now, where the new Normal has to shoot past even Mythic of the previous tier. And since ilvls jump in a linear fashion, but scale exponentially for stat benefits, the whole effect is just oof. Only one of the two could have stood on its own, but the two put together was just a ridiculous power jump.
*Think something like expecting someone to go from 10Naxx to 10Uld to 10ToC to 10ICC. You could easily do 200 → 215 → 227 → 236 or something like that.
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Bingo.
Send this to Ion already. They’re ruining this expac by starving players of loot.
Great expac so far, but a ton of people I play with are getting really over it because everything seems like a waste of time and unrewarding.
The raid should def drop a bit more loot IMO. They also need to remove these ridiculous trading restrictions. It causes so much wasted loot in this hyper constrained loot environment.
When it comes to M+ I’d rather them adopt a currency for it similar to PvP. Let all mythic plus loot have 3 levels of upgrade power. 3 ilvls per upgrade. You’d get some amount of this currency for every dungeon you complete, higher keys = more currency.
You could then spend that currency on any M+ item to upgrade to a maximum of 9 item levels. It would give farming dungeons a purpose, it would make the low item levels of the end of dungeon loot actually serve a purpose in being able to upgrade it. Even the item level 210 gear would only go to 219 so that Mythic raiding is still the top end. Even if you go multiple runs with no loot you’re earning that currency to upgrade some existing gear.
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I almost feel like they’re hitting the same points that a lot of game dev companies are tripping on - which is to lose the essence of playing a game, and focus too much on the gamification of a business.
MAU’s, DAU’s, loot boxes, dopamine hits, feedback loops, offline timers, FOMO, scarcity principles, seasons/battle passes - these are all phenomena game devs are trying to use everywhere, from gatcha games, to MMOs, or MOBAs, or FPS games. It’s all about the tools you can use to trick customers into feeling invested, or feeling addicted, or parting their cash from them in small increments.
That last one doesn’t apply as much for M+ or Raid loot drops, but the overall message stands - the entire gearing system is based around exploiting those feelings in players, rather than providing meaningful content/progression to the players. They’re far more worried about finding a system to keep players occupied in a way that cuts down their dev effort, or long enough to buy more time for the next patch, than they are in actually developing a system that players will keep playing because it’s fun.
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I don’t mind the loot scarcity per say, but if they are going to make m+ drop less loot with lower ilvl then it needs to be significantly easier. Doing a +8 for ilvl 200 gear that is harder than the first 3-4 bosses in heroic Nathria feels bad 