Crackshot also says Hello.
7 Likes
Iâm not against talents needing to be weighted similarly.
What I am against is-- lets count them-- eight different damn talents that directly improve Garrote sprinkled throughout Assassinâs tree. Many of them-- like Bloody Mess, Improved Garrote, and Shrouded Suffocation-- could stand to be baked into Garrote baseline and replaced with talents that offer some innovation into Assassin builds. A large issue of all of the Rogue talent trees is that theyâre filled with talents that could stand to be baked into abilities baseline and replaced with more interesting options. Blizzard spent an entire patch during Dragonflight, a mini-rework during The War Within Beta, and another mini-rework is planned for 11.0.5 for Paladin class trees addressing this very same issue that Rogue specs suffer with in terms of talents, but apparently despite having a developer for every spec in the game Blizzard can only actually work on one spec at a time while the others are left hanging.
11 Likes
Many of those talents were baseline at one time is the real insulting part.
I honestly donât have enough knowledge about most other classes to know if something similar was done to them but a lot of talents on the Rogue side have been created by taking away once base functionality of our abilities.
Garrote being perhaps the most egregious example. We have to buy the silence effect for it when that used to be the main reason you used it back in the day.
9 Likes
It is the same on many other specs. Not all, but many others.
The problem quite simply is they wanted every spec to get a 31 point class tree and 30 point spec tree. Not every class HAS that many interesting effects which are not, AND should not be already baked in.
So they had to be weird and jimmy things to the point classes had rough parity in trees, regardless of how much sense that made.
1 Like
I figured that was the case. It kinda goes without saying that it is a less than ideal way to create talents. It does
Though it does assist in balance between pve and pvp.
1 Like
there are some silly examples of thisâŠgarrote has too many talents affecting it, steed for palas has like 5 as well, even shiv has quite a few. 1 for 100% damage, 1 for 200% damage, and curiously, none for extending the duration by 2 seconds or something.
in our dreams, as a capstone, where thistle tea is now
7 Likes
The first talent is the initial purchase. All subsequent ones are just DLC for it.
Why arenât you buying all the talent DLC?
(tongue in cheek, talent taxes are lame)
(it may all be a spend more conditioning psyop)
I just want fixes to bugs and STILL they canât even do that. Iâve seen Daybreak games with more competent devs
4 Likes
Why do you assume itâs a matter of competence?
Everyone has a boss, and unless youâre privy to the inner workings and happen to know the devs are being tasked with the job to fix the bugs, given resources to fix the bugs, and simply canât figure out howâŠthen calling it incompetence just makes you sound naive.
Search Holly Longdale on LinkedIn â hoping your comment peak sarcasm! LOL
Most Rogue bugs are built on a stack of technical debt, especially around Stealth. Which is why I will continue to say Stealth needs out of the Combat loop and replaced with a reworked Advantage system for melee combat, with Rogues being the masters of Advantage and supporting Advantage for teammates.
1 Like
BTE has been broken for 9+ months, before this we had a Combo point UI bug that was caught in DF Prepatch PTR, then made it to Prepatch live and then made it to DF launch and about half way through Season 1. If it takes you this long to fix bugs like that, itâs incompetence, stop making excuses for them.
3 Likes
tell me more about this system and what you had in mind
1 Like
Gloomblade needs a buff, GSW needs a buff, Ghostly Strike needs a buff.
Rogue talents and cap stone talents are definitely not weighted similarly that is for sure.
4 Likes
I really hope you donât have an important job. 
Riveting reply
I donât care too much about implementation other than to spice up gameplay, similar to whatâs seen in many other RPGs with flanking bonuses or sneak attacks. The one exception to my âwhateverâ is it should be universal for weapon-based attacks and not Rogue-specific. Itâs just a system Rogue has the most interplay.
On first principles, Blizzard makes class design hard. The expression is easy to play, hard to master. Yet, we have specs (not all of them) which are hard even to play. To me, any class designer looking at talents and baseline kits and asking âhow can we add layersâ are IN THE WRONG JOB.
Imagine you are a professional craftsman. Your tools are your skills. You would be the worst craftsman if your goal was to Rube Goldberg your own tools!
Funny? Yes. But not smart.
Know your tools. Donât juggle them.
The right job for that person is ENCOUNTER design. Make the enemies hard. Make the class simple (elegant may be a better word, borrowing from our pure math friends). The entire principle of enemy systems is to rip difficulty off the character kit and throw it onto the enemy. You are managing the enemy not your skills.
Thatâs where I would begin with design.
Personally, the first pass I played around with included things like guaranteeing the maximum luck on direct damage rolls (background: every direct damage attack has a +/- 5% variance).
Rogue is the master of fortunes and it would be great to provide a utility that guaranteed the maximum 5% roll for all attacks during an âExpose Weaknessâ window. It then kind of ballooned from there to support positioning and a position-based damage system that transformed fights for all melee combat.
6 Likes
âKilling Spree is broke.â
âEchoing Reprimand has been made worse!â
âCoup De Grace has issues in Beta.â
âWeâve managed to fix Coup De Grace into functionality after release!â
âHook Shot is broke!â
âWeâll give you two charges, not bother to fix it, but weâre also going to take away your more reliable Shadow Step because we hate you.â
Itâs totally a matter of competence.
6 Likes
You think it is, because you do not know how it could be anything else.
But this is a 20 year old game. Thinking it canât POSSIBLY be anything other than incompetence tells me you are either not an adult who has been in the workforce, or someone who knows nothing about fixing bugs, or maybe both?
You cannot possibly be this deluded to think Rogues are in this condition due to âtimeâ. Especially when people keep telling them over and over again.
5 Likes
Looks at Recuperator
Uuuuh⊠yeah its a competence issue somewhere along the line. A competent team probably woulda scrapped it at least after the first year of it not workingâŠ
Its been at least 3.
They are always ok with scrapping OP things that they no longer wanna deal with. Crazy how it never happens with the underpowered things.
5 Likes