https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiugAIj_xFo&t=270s
I’m just gonna copy paste my rebuttal comment to it.
The WARcraft(emphasis on war) universe is in a state of constant conflict. That was always the point that the characters have all been pawns in a massive game by these forces. Blizzard has used it to great effect, especially considering the factions are basically cousins(the orcs are titan created creatures as well) that are now pitting against each other.(which makes the current faction wars even more tragic). Yes, the cosmological forces are trying to destroy you but because the people of Azeroth actually want to live, everyone is fighting their hardest(even fighting Algalon with a 0.01% chance of winning) and they are doing this for the same everyone alive continues to try live even though our world is horrible, because we want to live. Many people actually try to make the world a better place without resorting to the sort of thing Sylvanas does. Lastly, just because you are the victim of abuse does not give you carte blanche to hurt others!
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Here’s the thing I don’t think you’ve grasped this whole time, Zerde.
Blizzard can say what it likes about how the heroes are indomitable fountains of motivation - but the same can’t be said about the people being asked to actually play them. If there’s no point and everything sucks forever, don’t expect people to play.
Here, I’ll share a video too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5SSD8hVQrg
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As an FYI, I have already watch most of his videos.
The point is nothing will ever suck forever, especially in WoW. Or rather just like in real life people sometimes get the chance to correct/improve the world. Its not a guaranteed thing but the chance it might improve is why people might choose to stick around. The highs and lows of the story are important elements to it.
As my advanced auditing professor used to say:
“Okay, prove it to me.”
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Stormwind was destroy in Warcraft 1, look at it now. Dalaran was destroyed in Warcraft 3 and now it is flying in the sky. The Vale of Eternal Blossoms became the the Vale of Eternal Sorrows and now it is back to what it was before.
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Fair point. It doesn’t take away the constant feeling of dread that I have as a Night Elf player that things can only get worse because I have only seen things get worse, but I guess you’re right in saying that it gets better for some people.
Call me when that actually happens, assuming I’m not collecting Social Security checks by then, so that I know when its safe to give this company money again.
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My kid self was horrified when he played Warcraft 3 to see Lordearon leveled to the ground by its very prince no less. He was abit more pissed off when he realized the expansion for WC3 Alliance story was literally the blood elves leaving the Alliance. If I had stopped playing then I would never have experienced Warcraft storyline get to the point where it slowly got back the old Alliance gang together. Not to mention finally get some catharsis by seeing Arthas killed off.
Catharsis in Warcraft is something that takes years. And even then you don’t get everything you want out of it(Lordearon is still an undead/uninhabited wasteland for the most part). Look, play the game if you enjoy it, stop if you don’t. We wont really know when Blizzard will give the final cathartic punch. In your case you could potentially want until 9.1 if for no other reason then to see what happens to Sylvanas, for good or ill.
xD This has got to be the worst video I’ve ever seen. The individual doesn’t know anything they’re discussing.
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We wont really know when Blizzard will give the final cathartic punch.
Well, for me, the answer seems to be “never”, and people have been telling me “wait and see” since 2010. I’ve been waiting to hit back since then, and things have only gone downhill (and in a BIG way). That was eleven years ago, and had I subscribed that entire time, that would have been $2,280 between subscriptions and expansions (before we ever start talking about microtransactions or book purchases) going into subsidizing someone else’s fun.
I really don’t feel like subsidizing people. I expect to get value for my money instead of being strung along for years on end. So I’m going to have to ask for a better answer than this.
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Out of fairness to Zerde, I’m not really a fan of this particular YouTuber either. Her theories have never really jived with me.
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Not a fan of Lily Orchard. I gave this particular video a shot out of curiosity, and while there are some things I agreed with, there were also things I definitely did not agree with. So no surprise there, I guess.
Yeah, I pretty much agree here. I don’t know what this video is going on about. It’s a universe with multiple layers of conflict. Don’t really see the problem with that.
I don’t really know the truth about the “redeem Arthas!!” people having the ear of the developers, or any of that. Do the devs have this evil prejudice against Sylvanas and her fans? Maybe. Probably not, though.
Additionally, his assertion that all the high plans of the supermassive cosmic forces are always outdone by one character… that’s nonsense. It’s almost always this huge amount of people acting in collaboration.
As much as I’ve seen this comment on the forum, I’ve never seen Sylvanas say “somebody hurt me; therefore, I can hurt others!”, or seen a fan of hers justify what she does with that mindset.
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Please never link or watch Lily Orchard. A horrible person with equally terrible views.
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I think it is fair to say that Sylvanas is mostly indifferent to the suffering that she causes in others, and that this is mostly because her death/trauma dramatically changed her view of the world. The writers seem to be aware of this, as back in Cata at the finale of the Silverpine Questline, Sylvanas herself draws attention to the parallels between her situation as Ranger General of Silvermoon, and Lord Darius Crowley trying to drive the Forsaken out of Gilneas. However, she still shows no remorse for her actions.
If that is not enough, the writers practically bashed this same point again into our heads with her warbringers segment back in BFA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVp7yLfnmrE
Even if it is not explicitly stated, her justification for these actions seems to be that: Life is cruel, therefore I don’t have to feel bad about being cruel to others.
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I feel like I missed something but the video isn’t really excusing Sylvanas’s actions because that’s not the argument in the first place. I watched the whole thing and the two main points are “cosmology stuff sucks because it shifts focus away from the characters that players enjoy” and “Blizzard’s writing of abuse survivors is tremendously bad.”
If you try to counter that with in-universe explanations, you’re not really discussing the same thing as the video.
Edit:
I’ve never seen this person’s videos before. What makes them a bad person?
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The notion that Sylvanas having gone through nasty stuff is justification for her actions is pretty lol considering literally everyone else in this video game universe has also gone through nasty stuff but don’t try to murder everyone.
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Lily Orchard has a reputation on YouTube for starting drama with other youtubers, ripping-off/stealing content from other youtubers and has been accused of being very aggressive and/or toxic when dealing with people. Her views are also, to be generous, fairly left-leaning and so that in-itself is enough to make some people not like her.
Speaking for myself personally, I am not a fan. Though I do find her interesting in that she usually makes points that I agree with, only to lose me by the end of whatever argument she is trying to make.
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To a point. I don’t think they are justifications for her actions, but rather explanations for her feelings… or lack therof being shown, that one could expect her to have.
Basically Sylvanas is like “this is war”,“Yeah, something like this happened to me once too”. “Life is Pain”, “Hope fails”. Those are things that she has accepted for herself already, and I think she is wanting Delaryn to accept it too.
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A cartoon avatar striking smug poses is usually when I check out tbh.
Personally I agree with the broad strokes of the criticism. I think she’s being hyperbolic because the Sylvanas arc became insulting on a personal level. And I sympathize there but frankly I’m glad I threw the whole thing out after Edge of Night to return much later as an adult.
Blizz makes the undead paper thing allegories for mental illness and surviving trauma. So it can come off as incredibly mean spirited when they also paint them as monsters who even in true death can know no peace. But I attribute that to WoW having way too many writers who create content at different times, in different rooms and possibly different planes of existence without any continuity oversight.
Suffice to say it is poor form to assume malice in what stupidity can explain.
As for the cosmic stuff though - completely agree. I get there’s allegedly happy endings in this setting’s afterlife but the only one we saw was Bwomsamdi lying. So until proven otherwise I think the Forsaken should be awarded medals for rescuing people from this eternal madness.
Where I disagree whole heartedly is on the characters. Most people playing WoW haven’t played the RTS games. It’s the world that sells people.
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