I mean, that implies they’re balancing classes at any level. They really aren’t though.
Not for M+ anyway.
If raid balance was as far off as M+ balance was it would have been emergency hotfixed months ago.
What matters the most on a 16 or higher is the average item level of the entire group. Not one player. See what happens on a 17 or 18 if the average item level of the group is 210. It’s fine to have one guy sitting at 210. It really won’t go that well if everyone is. It’s timeble in the best of groups, but it will be much, much more challenging than if the group is closer to 220 item level average.
the valor system isn’t that great without a vendor otherwise you still need to spam mythic plus for drops at a 20-30% drop rate of a single item for yourself per dungeon
they might as well just get rid of any drops and change it all to a vendor since they are timegating it with the valor system
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Do you think timing 16s makes you “competitive in PvE”?
People were timing 16s in week 2 of the expansion.
And the only reason they were able to do that was because of PvP gear and BOEs.
Doing keys 9 levels below what top players are doing isn’t anyone’s definition of competitive.
Very few people were doing this.
I think there’s really two levels of play in this game… top tier and the rest of us. You definitely do not need PvP gear to play normally and enjoy the game, but if you wanna keep pace with the top end, you certainly do!
Worth pointing out that with the current ilvl cap at KSM, which is where most people want to get to anyway, most folks are probably gonna still feel compelled to PvP to push their characters over the edge. Is this what Blizzard intends?
Blizzard is currently putting KSM at the same level as 1800 rating… which is kind of laughable. I find KSM much more difficult and time consuming to get than 1800 rating, I usually get that within the first month of an expansion. The only reason I haven’t is because I’m actively boycotting PvP in Shadowlands because I dislike that Blizzard turned up the “burst” knob to 11.
Gearing is always lopsided… in BfA it was skewed towards PvE. In Shadowlands it’s skewed towards PvP. I really wish Blizzard would balance it out and just let players do the thing they want to do.
*Edit: For the record, I think their stance of “you shouldn’t be able to get the best gear in the game from just one part of it” is really inappropriate and disrespectful of player time. Sure, if you’re a mythic raider, a 20+ M+ player, or a 2400 rated pvp player, I get having to do both to min/max. But for the rest of us?
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Agreed. But he said to be competitive, and that’s very different.
Every single top level player will tell you that you absolutely needed to be reaching 2100 in PvP in order to be competitive in PvE this expansion.
Are the majority of top players in the world rolling in full pvp gear? I am not just talking about me.
Probably not now, but when the world first race was alive, very much yes.
Gear hasnt changed. If you needed pvp gear or it was superior, people would still be wearing it. Pvp was not required to be competitive.
Are you being serious right now?
No, gear has not changed. But people have now had 12 weeks of 226 gear from the great vault to catch up to the people who had that gear in the first couple of weeks from PvP.
For the record, the person you quoted wasn’t me. I was just responding to what you wrote 
*Edit – I see you edited. Never mind 
For the most part, I’m agreeing with you. Just pointing out that there’s always really been two levels of “competitiveness” in WoW. The top 1% of the top 1% doing their thing, pushing content absurdly quickly, and then the normal distribution of players after that.
The folks you were referring to, timing 16’s in the first couple weeks… they don’t really apply to the normal distribution of players.
Theres something called a conquest point cap. They did not get pvp gear in the first few week.
The weekly conquest cap is more than it costs to buy a single piece of gear.
The WF kills all had people wearing multiple pieces of 226 gear from PvP.
I think they waited too long to do this. As soon as the idea came up in their head, they should have implemented immediately instead of making us wait. I’m already 219 without this system and so far am at 4 timed 14s and 4 timed 13’s (still working on KSM) . Oh and not being able to upgrade gear we’ve already gotten? That was also incredibly stupid. By the time this system is implemented, it will be too late for the vast majority of us who are still working on KSM and are close. But…great for new players I guess. This should have been available day 1 of the season.
It depends on how much time there is between 9.0.5 and the end of the season.
I feel you though, and you’re right… this should have been in place from the start. But it wasn’t… and mistakes happen. However, going forward, I do hope Blizzard considers a solution that is good for the players.